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Re: DirectX 11 [Re: Slin] #376019
06/29/11 12:13
06/29/11 12:13
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,093
Germany
T
Toast Offline
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Toast  Offline
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T

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,093
Germany
I didn't want to emphasize this as a reason "against" DX11. It's just that the DX11 integration offers nothing despite a few nice-to-have features and some possible performance improvements (which on the other hand would require adaptations of the renderer and shader code so integrating higher speed-ups is no fire and forget task that gets done if you just support what DX11 can do). So the only argument left would be an integration because it's a standard nowadays and everybody uses it / expects it...

That's what I wanted to express: There's no such need of a DX11 integration as hardly anyone uses it (properly). This wouldn't make DX11 support a bad thing but if there are better / more valuable things to do those should be preffered...

Re: DirectX 11 [Re: Joey] #376030
06/29/11 13:20
06/29/11 13:20
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,537
WA, Australia
J
JibbSmart Offline
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JibbSmart  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,537
WA, Australia
Originally Posted By: Joey
What's that realtime local reflection thing about? That's nothing new (just a mirror, right?)
One video called it "SSR", which I imagine is screen-space-reflections. I think Little Big Planet does a similar trick when you're near glass surfaces. This way you can get decent looking reflections on arbitrarily shaped surfaces.

Jibb


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: DirectX 11 [Re: Slin] #376089
06/29/11 23:19
06/29/11 23:19
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,488
ratchet Offline
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ratchet  Offline
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Who in indie game making will really be able to produce a big AAA today games to really need an update for DX11 features ?

Why not instead try to stabilize or make a solid base of shaders with why not extensions (shade-C) directly plugged to work with future versions of A8 ?

Re: DirectX 11 [Re: ratchet] #376098
06/29/11 23:57
06/29/11 23:57
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
Trier, Deutschland
Nowherebrain Offline
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Nowherebrain  Offline
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Posts: 1,002
Trier, Deutschland
I know some people kinda strayed off topic, so here are my 2 cents..

I think we should always be looking to improve the game engine, but it seems to me what is really lacking is the art pipeline.....look at MED...let's either get rid of it or actually upgrade it. I do everything in blender and then fight with or use some quirky workaround, to get my models into GS...and even then I do most of that via code.....so I am not even concerned with the current state of wed.


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Re: DirectX 11 [Re: JibbSmart] #376099
06/30/11 00:35
06/30/11 00:35
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate Offline
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lostclimate  Offline
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Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
Originally Posted By: JibbSmart
Originally Posted By: Joey
What's that realtime local reflection thing about? That's nothing new (just a mirror, right?)
One video called it "SSR", which I imagine is screen-space-reflections. I think Little Big Planet does a similar trick when you're near glass surfaces. This way you can get decent looking reflections on arbitrarily shaped surfaces.

Jibb


I was wondering what that was, to me it just looked like a typical rtt reflection added over it.

Re: DirectX 11 [Re: lostclimate] #376108
06/30/11 03:07
06/30/11 03:07
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,537
WA, Australia
J
JibbSmart Offline
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JibbSmart  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,537
WA, Australia
I would've thought so, too. I can't remember where I saw the screenshot that called it "SSR", but I think we're getting used to what "SS" means when we're talking about shaders, and it's not the first time I've seen such an effect.

It's all quite pretty, but as mentioned before, the tessellation is the only thing we can't do in DX9 (although I have no doubt many of the other effects are more efficient with DX11).

Jibb


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: DirectX 11 [Re: JibbSmart] #376126
06/30/11 08:44
06/30/11 08:44
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Machinery_Frank  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
DX11 against DX9 has to be viewed from the point of a platform strategy. If an engine has to be cross-platform, then it makes sense to stick to DX9 as long as the next consoles generation appears. But if you have a technology based on Windows only then by all means, DX11 is a big improvement. You never can have almost unlimited lights with the current forward renderer. And DX9 implementations of deferred rendering are often too slow.

DX11 not only gives you tesselation, it can give you freedom where you can have much faster rendering, more lights and post-processing at almost no costs. It can be an advantage on Windows systems.

Of course many current games do not come with such modern technology because pc sales are only 10-20 percent of all sales. Consoles are more important. But a PC-only engine could use this situation as chance to fill a gap.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: DirectX 11 [Re: Machinery_Frank] #376131
06/30/11 09:06
06/30/11 09:06
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
Slin Offline OP
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Slin  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,713
Lübeck
That was basicly my idea, but that Deferred rendering is problematic with DirectX 9 ist something I don´t think, although in DirectX 11, it is of course an advantage that one can for example directly use the depthbuffer and don´t have to generate your own depthmap. Lightprepass rendering, which is what all those current deferred rendering implementations with those high light counts are about, is actually kinda THE technique for good results on the current generation of consoles.
But yes, DX11 would be a great step forward. Performance and feature wize. I think that there is more possible than we can imagine at the moment, as so far no game even slightly used the given possibilities.
And again, also don´t forget the power of geometry shaders. They can be great for things like fur, but also for example arbitary formed bookeh effects.

Re: DirectX 11 [Re: Slin] #376157
06/30/11 13:33
06/30/11 13:33
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,615
Cambridge
Joey Offline
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Joey  Offline
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Cambridge
geometry shaders are an incredibly powerful thing also for other rendering techniques like point clouds or voxels.

Re: DirectX 11 [Re: Firoball] #376406
07/02/11 17:03
07/02/11 17:03
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,722
old_bill Offline
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old_bill  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,722
Originally Posted By: Firoball
read aum100.

Thanks, haven't read that before.


Success is walking from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm.
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