Let me preface this by saying that I have gone over the Tutorials for both SED and WED and MED. I've completed those. Thing is, those are isolated tutorials covering very specific parts of the engine.

I haven't been able to find anything providing a map, or work-flow of how all these programs work together, bringing it all into the context of an actual project. What programs are used for what aspect? What's the chicken and what's the egg?

That sounds like a dumb question, but hear me out.

A great example. Terrain. Is there one primary approach to creating and editing terrain in 3DGS? I haven't been able to find any official tutorial or explanation. It seems there's as many different methods as there are tutorials I've found - and most of those tutorials have been in German, which I can't read or understand, unfortunately. Certainly there was some specific work-flow in mind when the terrain system's editing tools were created and implemented? Is that process documented anywhere?

That brings me to my next issue. Is there a good, strong resource somewhere that provides a comprehensive set of tutorials in English? I'd say, in my searches on here, on Google and on Youtube, 90% of the tutorials I find, easily, are in German. Those that I find in English are either out-dated, incomplete or broken links.

I guess that would explain why most of the more impressive looking projects released with it are also from German companies. There just seems to be a much better wealth of information for that community that is simply and sorely lacking for the English speaking one.

In essence, though I own a license for 3DGS (A7) and would love to use it for 2 or 3 projects I have, the problem I find myself running into is that I just can not make heads or tails of this game creation system. It's kind of a mess to me.

If this message seems like a rambling mess, then it's doing a good approximation of my level of confusion in trying to figure out which way is up with 3DGS lol. I don't doubt its capabilities. I just find figuring out where/how to get started with it to be unintuitive and frustrating at the moment.

So.. is there a good resource someone can point me to that I might have overlooked completely, that really starts from square one and gives a good, thorough outline of each tool, its place in the pipeline and where and how it would be used in the context of a project? How does each individual program contribute to the "suite of tools" as a whole?

For example, what, specifically, is GED used for, since it seems to overlap WED and MED in some aspects from what I've seen, etc.

Is there a book that can be recommended maybe?

Really don't intend to come across as a jerk here lol. I'm just sitting here looking at these interesting tools I have, with no idea "where 1 is".

Thanks

The easy answer to your question is: There is no such thing as an order when you have to use MED, WED, or SED, or when you have to create a terrain and so on. That's probably the reason why you haven't found any information on this topic, yet.
You can either start with the level design or with a gameplay prototype, and I suggest you start with the latter. Think of a game, then take a few notes (or even plan it out on paper), then create a simple dummy level with WED that features a few certain elements (f.i. stairs, slopes, doors) and a temporary player model. Now use SED to prototype your gameplay respectively your movement first and test it in the dummy level you've created previously. If all seems to work out fine and if it is fun, you can start to create nice levels with your favourite program (and import via FBX) or use WED directly (that's what I do). You could even write your own editor but that is not necessary.
In MED you create or import your models, your player figure, enemies, other animated stuff, detailed objects and the like. When you come to a point in your level where you say: "I need a terrain, now!", you can start MED and create a terrain there, too, manually or via a heightmap. The advantage of a heightmap is that you can create your blendmap in a painting program, too, otherwise it can get difficult (I've posted a very simple and unfinished blendmap painting tool called TED on the forum some time ago, it may be useful for you).
I don't want to blame the developer but simply never use GED, it was an approach to create a realtime editor that uses the engine without having to rewrite anything, that's why you cannot edit blocks and the like in it. Everytime I used it I've only had problems and crashes.

strange, I found 3dgs very easy to start with, it was the main reason of selecting this instead of other engines, as I had no real knowledge of 3D game making at all... just did the tutorials and read the AUM magazines to get the basic info to start, and read the corresponding parts of the manual when I started to make my own things.

the easiest to start with WED and draw a level from blocks, import prefabs, terrains and models by a few clicks, check the demo levels available how they are built, and everything should be okay and will be easy to move on.

or use my editor for outdoor levels, and check the example projects you get with it a couple of free models and terrains. I think it's okay for beginners, unfortunately the documentation is not finished totally.

Thanks for the feedback/information.

I was curious about GED because it seems to have been added since the last time I looked at this software. I was looking for some in depth documentation on it, but couldn't really find any, so I started poking around in it. What I saw seemed to be a map editor with its own terrain editor (which further added to my confusion about creating terrains, because now here's yet another method that seemed to have been introduced). But, at the end of it, like the other programs, it wasn't clear to me where its "place" was with the other tools.

So it's just supposed to be a sort of UnrealEd-Lite sort of a thing, where you're working directly with the game engine for a WYSIWYG type of deal, only you can't create BSP geometry or anything?

That's unfortunate because, personally, I think it would be the most logical and intuitive thing to go with the approach of having a single editor that's more "everything under one roof", than all the app juggling, importing and exporting the current setup seems to require.

I guess I just came to 3DGS expecting there to be some kind of intended, or suggested, or even self-evident work flow around which the tools were developed. It's the way it's been in most other engines I've checked out, and I guess I assumed the same would be true for 3DGS.

I'll use terrain again as my example, since it's been one of the most elusive things about 3DGS for me ever since I first checked it out years ago. I still have yet to successfully get a good-looking, functional terrain into this engine, despite all the tutorials I've gone through, etc. The part that trips me up the most is texturing, or "skinning" them. There seems to be a number of ways to do this, and a number of apps involved in the process. Some involve scripting, some don't. Some have you creating the texture in a separate program, some have you creating it via some multi-texture script, some have you creating it using that wonky terrain texture app inside MED that makes no sense to me and for which I can't find any kind of good tutorials either. What makes it more confusing is that I'm not sure if the techniques shown in some of them are still relevant or recommended as they're using earlier versions of the engine.

It's all kind of confusing to me. I'd expect there to be at least one, officially intended and well-documented process for getting a good looking, well-textured terrain into the engine. I've yet to find one.

Considering there are many people apparently doing just fine with the engine, I can't help but feel like there's some gold mine of awesome tutorials and examples somewhere that I just haven't found yet.

I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but this engine just confuses the heck out of me.

Thanks again!

Hi,



You just have to assemble the parts to build what you want . One solution is to plan something (a little learning project) you want to do and get help here on the forum when you get stuck.

As I've said before, you only use a specific tool/ feature when you need it, you won't find any predefined workflow as there is no such thing, it isn't even necessary. Just start with a gameplay prototype (using a simple WED level and SED) and then you decide what you want to create next, your ideas and your mind dictate what tool is to be used next.

IMO the terrain generation is in fact a little problematic with GStudio, but you can try the following approach: Open the painting program of your choice, draw a heightmap where black is the lowest and white is the highest point. Then choose a multitexturing terrain shader (there's a list of available shaders in the manual) and create the appropriate blend map (this depends on the shader). Now import the heightmap in MED and make some adjustments, if necessary. Add the terrain in WED and assign the material/ action (f.i. from mtlFX.c).

Maybe expand the 'Basic Shooter' of the Online Tutorial and toy with it somewhat will give you the start you need for this engine. Like alter the movement, camera, add crouch, jump, improve AI, add vegetation, new enemies etc. This way you already have something to build upon, instead of beginning with something totally new.

The more you use the editors, the more you will know what they are good for and what they can be used for.

That's not a bad approach, actually. Yourself, Superku and others have all given good feedback.

I think I'm just accustom to finding a sort of "step by step" getting started that encompasses everything when I check out a new engine. 3DGS is set up a bit more "free form" than that. As long as I understand that, it kinda makes more sense to me, odd as that might sound.

I think working with existing things, building off a tutorial will be a good idea. It'll give me a context to work within, so I understand not only what I'm doing, but why I'm doing it (a key thing for me when I'm learning something new - I'm horrible at learning by memorization).

I did find a few good videos that I could follow online, but their creator seems to have given up on the tutorial end of things and is instead uploading videos of his own project now. So that's unfortunate.

But I'll figure it out. Just need(ed) to get into the right headspace for it.

Thanks!

Okay, so color me stupid... but where do I find the shooter tutorial, reconnoiter? I'm looking through all the manual/tutorial/etc. links and can't find anything about a basic shooter tutorial...?

Hi,

here it is