Not a matter of support for one system or another so much as it is making sure that both sides are presented honestly. Often Mac proponents tout the stability of their systems over Windows, but the reality is that a properly configured and maintained Windows system is no less stable than Mac or Linux. They all have their uses, and some can do some things better than others - however in the realm of general purpose home computing nothing at all comes close to Windows. Attempts to make Linux more user friendly have resulted in a bloated GUI and reduced stability. Apple does not offer the freedom of hardware configurations or software that makes Windows so appealing. However when it comes to video editing, there is a lot (OK - 2 ) of Mac only software that makes life a lot easier - but as Adobe indicated with dropping support for Mac in Premiere Pro...Apple is loosing ground in that area.

Anywho - would an OpenGL interface be nice for 3DGS? Sure, I prefer working with OpenGL for rendering elements anyway. However I do not think that a new gravy train of Mac users and potential customers for games made with 3DGS exists. Maybe Blitz is thinking ahead, maybe they are attempting to secure some form of future...or maybe they lost a bet. Time will tell, but the numbers don't seem to support it in the long run (granted they have been holding strong at the 1-2% market share for some time now ).

The market for Mac Users should still not be ignored though. Even a 1% share of the market is quite a lot of people. It's sort of like, why does Coca Cola bother selling its products in New Zealand when there are only 3.5 million people there, and the 50 million odd sheep don't drink Coke. Even such a small percentage of the market can still produce a lot of revenue.

Also, some institutions still favor Macs. A lot of educational institutions have been using Macs since computers were first introduced into the education system, and they haven't changed. A lot of art studios favor Macs, probably because of their pretty case design and lovely looking GUI. I still don't know if the there are as many Apple users as there are sheep in New Zealand, but they still shouldn't be ignored. If you could sell 50,000 units of your game to PC users, you might have been able to sell another 1,000 units to Mac users -and that'd buy you a few steak dinners.

Mac is going down the toilet, though. It loses market share every year, even in the US. With any luck they'll disappear altogether and we won't have to worry about them anymore.

@ Fastlane
oh come on now 'lane... you know you were there too... and when the time came, you pushed everyone outta the way and jumped in the front of the line... so you could be the first to get your 'spanking'...

why am i not surprised to see you at the head of this line too...



@ Myrlyn and A Russell
good and balanced viewpoints, reasonably presented...



of course i was taking a tongue and cheek jab at the WinPC 'union' that seems to always race to volunteer to put down anyone and anything that isn't Windows...

the reality of the matter is that either system is a competent OS for the general user... and neither excels at doing anything that much better than the other...



and of course, i say all this at the risk of having the Win/PC fanboy union have a protest march in front of my office...

but hey, i can take a day of pale, glasses wielding nerds, sipping their lattes and drinking their colas, walking around carrying cute lil signs with emoticons sprinkled all over em...

... religiously stopping every hour or so to face the holy city of Redmond, kneel, submit their chants of adoration to their savior, and reboot their systems, or update their virus checkers... whichever comes first...


(sorryyyy, i just couldn't resist that last one )


--Mike

<<steps on soapbox>>

Child molesting spankings aside, in all seriousness, I've had every windows version from 3.1 to xp and am now learning to use 2003. In all my years, I have had a total of one blue screen of death in win3.1 and never have I ever lost any data (keep my os on c:, data on d:, reinstall and life is good). Reinstalling is a hour or two process and thus even that isn't a pain.

I've been using xp for years now and I have never had a crash, never had a virus or trojan horse, and never lost any data; perfectly stable as far as I'm concerned. Am I lucky or unusual? I don't think so. Here's my personal viewpoint:

Windows is like 3DGS in a lot of ways.

When something goes wrong with 3DGS programming, the newbies are quick to blame the engine as "buggy". But 99 percent of the time, it's because of improper understanding of the engine or faulty programming or faulty hardware; nothing to do with the 3DGS engine. Same with windows; if you don't know what you are doing (for example, you use weak passwords or open every attachement you get or set up shared folders improperly or don't patch or etc etc), then you get hacked, cracked, and virus and blame windows for being a "buggy" system. Much like the 3DGS user, the windows user says "Oh it can't be me, it has to be the OS".

Windows is only as secure as the users. And since there are so many more windows users, there are correspondingly greater chances of messing up. So all I know is that in my experience, windows has been a fantastic system.

Now as to macs, my only experience with them lately is that my last university deployed macs in every classroom. Guess what, our of 8 machines, on average, 2 to 3 where always down every week. Do I blame the OS and Mac? Nope, I blame our admin for not setting up securities and user accounts properly and letting the students run amok on our systems. Again, it's the user not the program.

Finally, and this is undeniable, the amount of software and the bredth of scope of that software is much higher on win than mac. Thus, if I was a general user, I would be better served using windows and not macs as I would be guaranteed to find a piece of software. I think the public knows this, I think Conitec knows this, and that's why I think 3DGS won't be ported to Macs any time soon; spending 100% of your time pursuing 1% market share doesn't sound like good business.

<<steps off soapbox>>

another unsolicited testimonial... he even brought his own soapbox...



hey, you're preaching to the choir dear boy...

try selling that hype to someone who hasn't used and coded for Windows 1.1...

... and to someone who doesn't still have most of the 50 or so odd Chicago cds from actively participating in the beta.




--Mike

You're welcome.

IMHO 3DGS should consider Director 3D as competition.

Many of us indies that are pitching projects are doing so through advertsing / marketing firms to create Avdertising Games. Ad Agencies are still very much Mac Domains. This translates into what is pitched to a client MAC compatability.

So regardless of the reality of how many users use MAC's, in two areas where 3DGS is a viable tool choice and furtile ground for indies, Education and Advertising Gaming, it comes in as a weaker sister because of the lack of MAC playable.

Educational games is very open for Indie developers. In my region of the world MAC compatibility is required. It is not in all of the world. Since 3DGS is a top indie tool, it would be nice to offer to the 3DGS indie developers an option to be able to bid on the MAC PC Hybrid deals, instead of being forces into bidding to make the run of the mill Shockwave game. As I stated charge $1500 for that privilage, make it worth the work.

I think Wild Tangent is struggling against Shockwave because of the lack of a MAC playable.

When JCL and crew outline new features, I would think they would also be thinking about how to reach new customers, and retain the ones they have. They need to find ways to generate additional revenue.

Doug is an EX MAC developer let him loose for 6 months.

There are only a handful of us that would be interested in a Console port. Even if an indie could make an XBOX version, Microsoft controls product publishing so closley that you would be screwed. It would be a nice little hobby thing I guess, once you drop 40K for XBOX dev system.

The MAC is still an open Market, Apple does not enforce publishing restrictions like the console manufacturers.

Like Myrlyn, I too, have grown very found of OpenGL.

Ken

Quote:

---

My last major Mac project was developed under OS7. There have been some changes since then.

---

I did the graphics layer of Authorware in OS7 also. Hey OS7 + OS7 = OS14 coverage. Maybe not.

Doug, ole bud, me thinks you are trying to opt out of this tricky task.

It would be interesting to put the conversion out to bid with Macsoft or one of those Mac Prting companies to see what it would cost.

Ken