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Re: is Profit factor or OptimalF affected by spread?
[Re: jcl]
#436663
01/30/14 20:10
01/30/14 20:10
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 245
swingtraderkk
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 245
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dusktrader,
A couple of other places to look:
1) overfitting to past data - some of the great work you did on using binary logic to optimise days / times etc. could lead to overfitting. Do you still have the divergence on simpler minimally optimized algos. Relatedly - there recently was a thread on degrees of freedom which describes this phenomenon better. However, beware elimination of degrees of freedom by testing and rejecting many optimizable parameters for a single value - that process introduces all new data mining biases.
2) how long are you testing vs how long did the test period run? Not sure what an algo would have to be trained and tested on to be fit for the last week and a half of market action! Come to think of it Dec wasn't great either :-)
I'm very proud I restricted my discretionary trading drawdown% to double digits only this past week ;-)
Last edited by swingtraderkk; 01/30/14 20:11.
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Re: is Profit factor or OptimalF affected by spread?
[Re: swingtraderkk]
#436687
01/31/14 11:04
01/31/14 11:04
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 522
dusktrader
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 522
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Thanks guys. I'm still working at this. I'm about ready to toss GBPCHF in the trash, and assume it might just be the pair. I have no problem doing that, it's just that I'm having a hard time reconciling why the WFO Test (1 Lot still) does not look better, given these WFO cycle results:
cycle 1) GBPCHF: 53.0 29 52.0 5.00=> 4.482 cycle 2) GBPCHF: 53.0 29.0 53.0 6.99=> 3.560 cycle 3) GBPCHF: 58.0 29.0 48.0 5.01=> 1.766 cycle 4) GBPCHF: 60.0 29 49.0 6.00=> 2.878 cycle 5) GBPCHF: 60.0 29.0 46.0 8.00=> 2.404 cycle 6) GBPCHF: 61.1 35.0 46.0 2.98=> 1.301 cycle 7) GBPCHF: 44.0 29.0 47.0 6.00=> 1.237 cycle 8) GBPCHF: 54.0 37 51.0 3.99=> 1.279 cycle 9) GBPCHF: 61.1 37.0 50.0 8.00=> 3.337 cycle 10) GBPCHF: 49.0 29.0 53.0 7.00=> 1.649 last cycle) GBPCHF: 50.0 34.0 49.0 8.00=> 1.107
Every cycle returns a nice PR from what I can tell, yet the Test itself shows a loss (and the equity chart looks bad as well).
I know the strategy has some merit, because the results on EURUSD look great (both Train and Test). I carried it to GBPCHF after some prospecting procedures that showed good WFO Train results and then tweaked the optimizations for GBPCHF (I did also test the raw EURUSD params, which were not as promising looking).
Regarding overfitting: yes I know its possible. I hope I haven't introduced too much, it is constantly on my mind. But even in the case of overfitting, I would think a good Train result should also have a (decent) Test result. Usually when I see a bad Train result, then I may not even run the Test because I know it too will be bad.
To answer your second question... the history period I've chosen more philosophically than scientifically, and I'm not sure if it's a good choice. I kept it starting at 2008 only because I felt that history prior to that was less relevant (ie different market personality) for a shorter-timeframe logic. So far I have not seen a reason to think this starting point is wrong.
@jcl I'll have to go back and check the # of trades between Train/Test... I haven't done that yet.
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Re: is Profit factor or OptimalF affected by spread?
[Re: dusktrader]
#436757
02/01/14 11:34
02/01/14 11:34
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 75
royal
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 75
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In looking at the chart of GBPCHF, it makes sense to me because long term (since 2008) it has been in a steady downtrend. If I was trading discretionary, I might only take shorts on this pair. Hi Dusktrader! If you disable long trades due to this fact, you are doing some sort of data snooping, because in real trading you would not know about this downtrend. (When does it start? When does it end? It could have ended right after switching on the EA) Greetings roy
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Re: is Profit factor or OptimalF affected by spread?
[Re: royal]
#436759
02/01/14 12:06
02/01/14 12:06
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 28 Adelaide, South Oz
Radar
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 28
Adelaide, South Oz
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Maybe phantom trade both directions, and only enable real trades for a direction when its phantom equity is on the increase?
Have fun! Radar =8^)
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