The end of Z5

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The end of Z5 #447962 01/15/15 10:28 01/15/15 10:28
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 82 Sydney, NSW T Thirstywolf OP Junior Member
Thirstywolf OP Junior Member T Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 82 Sydney, NSW	Well I take it everyone else just got violated on Z5 as well? JCL, will Z5 get replaced with another strategy? Also, I notice that my biggest losses came from Z5 trying to take longs well below the 1.20 level. Can I suggest that in hindsight a break below 1.20 means the floor is most likely gone, and the system should not enter new trades there. Hope we all didn't get too burnt. Thanks.

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: Thirstywolf] #447963 01/15/15 10:29 01/15/15 10:29
Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 64 Spain yosoytrader Junior Member
yosoytrader Junior Member Joined: Sep 2013 Posts: 64 Spain	Swiss Central Bank removes euro cap Happy trading

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: yosoytrader] #447964 01/15/15 10:57 01/15/15 10:57
Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: 482 Sydney, Australia B boatman Senior Member
boatman Senior Member B Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: 482 Sydney, Australia	That was amazing! I hope Z5 was heavily short and you guys booked some mega profits!! www.robotwealth.com

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: boatman] #447965 01/15/15 11:17 01/15/15 11:17
Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: 18 molloy Newbie
molloy Newbie Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: 18	It seems that this is not the case: http://www.myfxbook.com/members/sphin/zorro-z5/837317

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: molloy] #447968 01/15/15 12:10 01/15/15 12:10
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 57 3 3DCat Junior Member
3DCat Junior Member 3 Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 57	that sucks. I thought you cannot loose more than your account balance with fxcm, or so they advertize. but sphins z5 is way below zero. Is that correct?

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: molloy] #447970
01/15/15 12:31 01/15/15 12:31

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,982
Frankfurt

jcl

Chief Engineer

jcl

Chief Engineer

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,982
Frankfurt

You normally not even lose all your account balance because you keep the open margin in case of a margin call. That was of importance today.

Stop Z5 and Z4 now. They should have stopped themselves anyway due to the stop slider. They could have taken large profits today when margin was left on the account after the peak down. Here's one of my Z5 logs from this morning:

Code:

[Thu 15.01.15 08:57]  8707 +600 -300 0/3/36
[Thu 15.01.15 09:57]  4610 +600 -28488 0/3/36
{EUR/CHF::l9801} Sell 895@0.00000: -896094$ at 09:56
Closed by Stop slider
{EUR/CHF::l} Long 895@1.1784 Entry stop
{EUR/CHF::l4802} Sell 622@0.00000: -622744$ at 09:56
Closed by Stop slider
{EUR/CHF::l} Long 622@1.1784 Entry stop
{EUR/CHF::l9803} Sell 600@0.00000: -600699$ at 09:56
Closed by Stop slider
{EUR/CHF::l} Long 600@1.1784 Entry stop
Broker: Broker closed 45987447
[EUR/CHF::L7447] Sell 895@0.00000: -274$ at 09:56
Broker: Broker closed 46080944
[EUR/CHF::L0944] Sell 622@0.00000: -1297$ at 09:56
Broker: Broker closed 46171400
[EUR/CHF::L1400] Sell 600@0.00000: -1146$ at 09:56
{EUR/CHF::l} Entry stop 1.1771 hit at 10:01
{EUR/CHF::l0904} Long 895@1.1771 Risk 76997$ ptl at 10:00
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Long 895@1.1771 Net trade at 10:00
{EUR/CHF::l} Entry stop 1.1771 hit at 10:01
{EUR/CHF::l0905} Long 622@1.1771 Risk 53510$ ptl at 10:00
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Long 622@1.1771 Net trade at 10:00
{EUR/CHF::l} Entry stop 1.1771 hit at 10:01
{EUR/CHF::l0906} Long 600@1.1771 Risk 51618$ ptl at 10:00
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Long 600@1.1771 Net trade at 10:00
{EUR/CHF::l0904} Stop 895@1.0739: -85902$ at 10:13
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
{EUR/CHF::l0905} Stop 622@1.0739: -59700$ at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367563
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0739 at 10:13
{EUR/CHF::l0906} Stop 600@1.0739: -57588$ at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367563
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367563
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0739 at 10:13
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0656 at 10:19
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0656 at 10:19
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0656 at 10:19
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0453 at 10:21
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367627
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0453 at 10:21
Broker: Close order incomplete 46367631
Broker: Error 072 - Timeout 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0453 at 10:21
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Error - Cannot place more than one order of this type for each trade: 164339924@20216780

Broker: Close order failed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Can't close 895@1.0433 at 10:24
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0436 at 10:24
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0431 at 10:25
Broker: Broker closed 46367563
[EUR/CHF::L7563] Sell 895@1.0433: +3888$ at 10:28
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0455 at 10:28
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0444 at 10:29
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0484 at 10:33
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0469 at 10:34
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367627
[EUR/CHF::L7627] Can't close 622@1.0422 at 10:39
Broker: Error - There is no tradable price

Broker: Close order failed 46367631
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Can't close 600@1.0423 at 10:40
[EUR/CHF::L4235] Sell 622@1.0410: +359$ at 10:46
[EUR/CHF::L7631] Sell 600@1.0410: +9718$ at 10:47

[Thu 15.01.15 10:57]  43356 +11848 +0 0/0/36
[Thu 15.01.15 11:57]  43304 +11848 +0 0/0/36

The day started with EUR 8,707 on the Z5 account, and ended with EUR 43,304. Inbetween there was a margin call, followed by an equity peak at 280,000 EUR - not visible in the log but according to FXCM TS. It was not a real profit because the trades could not be closed, and the entry prices were probably wrong.

The EUR dropped to 0.8 CHF after the announcement, causing a margin call of my account with two Z5 instances. Both Z5 and the broker closed all trades. The two Z5 systems then immediately opened several new long trades due to the low-volatility algorithms. Strangely, FXCM accepted the trades. The EUR went then further down, then up again, but FXCM refused to close the new trades - you can see the many close attempts in the log. They finally closed at 1,04, putting EUR 43K on the account.

This was of course a lucky outcome, often brokers reject all trades at extreme volatility peaks. It's quite possible that this was no good day for other Z5 users.

Currently FXCM seems not to accept any EUR/CHF trades.

We have to declare Z5 officially dead now. At least unless they'll place a new CHF cap.

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: jcl] #447977 01/15/15 14:28 01/15/15 14:28
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 568 Fuerth, DE Sphin User
Sphin User Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 568 Fuerth, DE	Then I had not enough money on my account ...

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: Sphin] #447981 01/15/15 16:59 01/15/15 16:59
Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,609 D DdlV Serious User
DdlV Serious User D Joined: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,609	What a way to start the day... Both Zorro and TS now show a large negative balance/equity. Is this real and I now owe FXCM bunches of $$$? Or does FXCM stand by their can't lose more than is in the account and will reconcile the account & therefore TS somehow? Also, why did Z5 try to enter new trades with balance < $0? Lastly, Z12 took a bath too on USD/CHF trades - anyone else see that also? Thanks.

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: DdlV] #447984 01/15/15 18:02 01/15/15 18:02
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 568 Fuerth, DE Sphin User
Sphin User Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 568 Fuerth, DE	I hope FXCM will fulfill their announcment - they write it often enough on their website that there is no subsequent payment obligation. My Z12 was also effected by losses of USD/CHF but it was nothing compared with Z4/Z5.

Re: The end of Z5 [Re: Sphin] #447985 01/15/15 19:15 01/15/15 19:15
Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: 18 molloy Newbie
molloy Newbie Joined: Apr 2014 Posts: 18	FXCM writes in the risk warning that a negative equity can happen but does not mean you have to pay. You can loose all of your money but no more. It happened to me too. "Although the margin call feature is designed to close positions when account equity falls below the margin requirements, there may be instances when liquidity does not exist at the exact margin call rate. As a result, account equity can fall below margin requirements at the time orders are filled, even to the point where account equity becomes negative. This is especially true during market gaps or volatile periods. FXCM will not hold traders responsible for deficit balances in this scenario, but clients should be cognizant that all funds on deposit in an account are subject to loss. FXCM also recommends that traders use Stop orders to limit downside risk in lieu of using a margin call as a final stop." http://www.fxcm.com/legal/trading-execution-risks/

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