It is true that some part of the Bible are open to different interpretations but definitly not as far as the original sin and the salvation are concerned
I suppose that both fundamentalists and liberals agree on the following point

Jesus Christ died on the cross because of our sins

There is however a fundamental difference between Catholic and protestant conception of God, having a strong impact also in the society

Here in Italy we have been taught to think at God as a sort of Big brother alwayes willing to help us
This is not the God of the Bible, may be the God of the Gospel but not for sure of the Bible

The God of the Bible is justice He is not Love

Look around and observe people

Fair and honest people are very often mercy less people
Dont you agree ?

Apart from that I consider as an absurd the theory that God is not responsible for the earthquake

If He could prevent the earthquake from happening then He his responsible
If He could not then He is not God

JCL, the first clue that you should have ignored that link (about bible massacres) is that the website itself linked to the skeptic's annotated bible. The most intellectually lazy and irrelevant peice of information on the internet, and that's saying something.

If you want another view on the massacres, I'll reference any curious sorts here since these topics are too in depth to go into in one thread on one forum.

Its extremely telling that these massacres are referred to as 'holocausts' as if they can even be compared in any way whatsoever.

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I'm no expert in "liberal versions" of God, maybe there are many such versions. But modern Christians usually believe that God did not create the Universe and can not physically influence events on earth.

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That's deism, not Christianity.

Why would a deistic god, considering its nature, send its son to earth to die for our sins?

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He's more an idea than a physical entity, and thus is not responsible for death and suffering.

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Yes, which is why liberal christianity is a good breeding ground for new age philosophies tacked onto the bible.

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Only US fundamentalists still believe that their God, just as Hitler or Saddam, personally inflicted death and suffering as retaliation for disobedience. See:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/death_suffering.asp

The bible doesn't directly claim that God invented death, this belief is some fundamentalist specialty. However according to the bible God often incited others to murder and genocide, acted as an accomplice to murder, or committed mass murder himself.

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Death is just a consequential result of our universe lacking in the full presence of God, for those who believe that argument. I'm kind of leaning in that direction, but I haven't completely decided yet.

Anyway, I'll just use that as my argument for now. In this case, and as AiG implies in their website (unless you can point out otherwise), God doesn't necessarily create death so much as He allows it to happen since He has partially removed His presence from the creation.



Argh...I had a lot more I wanted to say, but I have to go for now. I have to hang out with my friend (lame, I know), but I'll be back around later.

OT:

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That's deism, not Christianity.

Why would a deistic god, considering its nature, send its son to earth to die for our sins?

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Same goes for the 'Christian' God off course, why would he do such a thing? No pun intended. It's simply something I wonder, because when you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.

Cheers

I HAVENT READ THE LAST LIKE 20 POSTS.... that being said, i want to ask something, who says god "did it" wouldnt it be more like why didnt god stop it, and thats like saying you should convict the govenor of california if the fault broke and thousands of people died, cuz "he was in charge" thats what doesnt make much sense.

Enough about god, lets talk about theses super police that captured him. How can we impliment them into our games, because I'm looking for a real challange lol.

"And what exactly are those "sins" that would justify mass murder?"
Now to comment on the above quote, I would just like to remind everyone that there are little girls and boys in Africa and all over the world that are being violently raped and tortured (most likely at least 1 at this very moment). Now in my opinion, if we could vote to find the people who commited theses acts and pick them up before they did their damage and gather them all in one place and execute them all at once, they would have my vote for sure.

As far as the justice system goes, and all those agenst the death penalty and think life is a much more suitable punishment, I would like to say that putting a person in a box, and locking him away from sociaty will not change his views/values. There for if he were to escape he would go right back and continue doing whatever it is that he did. In my opinion, instead of seeking vengence and retribution, we should worry more on fixing people. Killing a murderer or making sure he suffers will not undo his damage, only add to the negative energy in the world.

In my opinion we should gather all criminals (not including drug addecs because I completely disagree that the goverment should regulate what substances we are allowed to insert into our bodies [and incase anyone is wondering yes I have tried some drugs but i am not an addec]) and try to help them. In my opinion everyone can be a "good" humanbeing if the right events accure to him. I once read an artical in a magizine (might have been national geographics) that conclude after testing (a fish with a really bad memory was put in a situation where he had to make a choice, and after his memory was loss of the previous choice he kept making the same choice), that animals and people will keep doing the samething unless something happens to them that makes them realize otherwise. What i mean by realise is actually understanding what they are doing (not just knowing what they are doing) and actually understanding why it's not a good thing and they have options. Now it can takes a really long time for someone to realize something like this. However i'm willing to bet money that 9times out of 10 it will happen faster if instead of being slammed into a box for a rediculous ammount of time, they are given professional help.

Now to get us all back on topic, in my opinion god would say that killing someone in this life is actually liberation. He has freed them and they are now reborn in a heaven some place where they are blessed with eternal blissful happyness. And since he is indeed god, he will finally prove it to us lol.

Lack of his presence? What exactly do you mean? Just curious,

Cheers

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The 'chaos' of natural disasters and so forth is just a consequence of the lack of His presence.

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God's lack of presence is certainly something we can agree upon - welcome to Atheism. Maybe this could even hint how to defend Him?

Back in the courtroom, the prosecutor has meanwhile finished his speech. He demands a total of 58,259,125 years in prison for God: 25 years per count of each of the 60,000 killings in Lisboa plus the 2,270,365 killings God boasted about in the Old Testament. Due to God's support of terrorists, the prison term is to be spent in Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo.

God has meanwhile shaven, showered, and is wearing a cheap gray business suit that makes Him look like a harmless insurance agent. He's put on a suspiciously confident smirk. Could he have found a defense strategy after all? His lawyer carries a big stack of books before the judge and demands them to be registered as evidence for the defense. The tension in the court room reaches boiling point. The journalists on the press balcony almost break their necks to catch a glimpse on the book covers. What books might that be?