2 registered members (Ayumi, 1 invisible),
584
guests, and 1
spider. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: God's Defense Strategy
[Re: AlbertoT]
#105056
01/15/07 00:15
01/15/07 00:15
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
Jesus Christ died on the cross because of our sins
Well the consensus is probably there when it comes to US Christian fundamentalists yes, but there are people who think it was a conspiracy of Jewish people who eventually killed Jesus. Part of this theory says Jesus was not the promised Messiah, so according to them he did not die because of 'our' sins. (Most Jews believe the 'real' Messiah has not yet come to earth or something along this line, and some 'Christians' believe this too.)
Infact, there are plenty of people who generally are called 'Christians' who do not believe in Christ himself. The latter is a bit of a European thing though and usually those people are not very fanatic, although some do really believe in God.
Quote:
Fair and honest people are very often mercy less people Dont you agree ?
Is it fair to be honest? Is it honest to be fair? I'd say yes and yes. So what's wrong with being both? Nothing. You don't need mercy when you're fair, right? Wrong. If you are really fair and people deserve another chance, they will or should get it. Being honest or fair doesn't mean they are mercyless no matter what. Still, I do agree with you. People who seem to look fair and honest are often not. It's easy to misjudge people or be mislead and people tend to think that most people are really nice, eventhough most are selfish, unfair and dishonest.
Quote:
If He could prevent the earthquake from happening then He his responsible If He could not then He is not God
True, but if he would have stopped the earthquake, how could we know he stopped it? If God is justice, then his reasoning is strange and full of illogic and cruelty. Somehow judging the events in this world, he can't or won't stop 'evil' (read: men or women or children doing horrible things to eachother.). What 'good' is a God that can't stop evil?
Perhaps in his defense he should simply proof that he had no other choice but to let the earthquake rummble and kill?
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: God's Defense Strategy
[Re: PHeMoX]
#105057
01/15/07 02:32
01/15/07 02:32
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718 Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
User
|
User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
|
JCL, the first clue that you should have ignored that link (about bible massacres) is that the website itself linked to the skeptic's annotated bible. The most intellectually lazy and irrelevant peice of information on the internet, and that's saying something. If you want another view on the massacres, I'll reference any curious sorts here since these topics are too in depth to go into in one thread on one forum. Its extremely telling that these massacres are referred to as 'holocausts' as if they can even be compared in any way whatsoever. Quote:
I'm no expert in "liberal versions" of God, maybe there are many such versions. But modern Christians usually believe that God did not create the Universe and can not physically influence events on earth.
That's deism, not Christianity.
Why would a deistic god, considering its nature, send its son to earth to die for our sins?
Quote:
He's more an idea than a physical entity, and thus is not responsible for death and suffering.
Yes, which is why liberal christianity is a good breeding ground for new age philosophies tacked onto the bible.
Quote:
Only US fundamentalists still believe that their God, just as Hitler or Saddam, personally inflicted death and suffering as retaliation for disobedience. See:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/death_suffering.asp
The bible doesn't directly claim that God invented death, this belief is some fundamentalist specialty. However according to the bible God often incited others to murder and genocide, acted as an accomplice to murder, or committed mass murder himself.
Death is just a consequential result of our universe lacking in the full presence of God, for those who believe that argument. I'm kind of leaning in that direction, but I haven't completely decided yet.
Anyway, I'll just use that as my argument for now. In this case, and as AiG implies in their website (unless you can point out otherwise), God doesn't necessarily create death so much as He allows it to happen since He has partially removed His presence from the creation.
Argh...I had a lot more I wanted to say, but I have to go for now. I have to hang out with my friend (lame, I know), but I'll be back around later.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
|
|
|
Re: God's Defense Strategy
[Re: lostclimate]
#105060
01/16/07 09:18
01/16/07 09:18
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
who says god "did it" wouldnt it be more like why didnt god stop it, and thats like saying you should convict the govenor of california if the fault broke and thousands of people died, cuz "he was in charge" thats what doesnt make much sense.
The more interesting question in my opinion would be wether or not God could infact stop such a thing, wether he wanted to or not left aside. Most religious people are confident God can do anything as long as there's reason to do so. (still there are some exceptions, because some seem to believe God is bound to (his own?) rules.)
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: God's Defense Strategy
[Re: PHeMoX]
#105061
01/17/07 07:00
01/17/07 07:00
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,305 New York
PrenceOfDarkness
Serious User
|
Serious User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,305
New York
|
Enough about god, lets talk about theses super police that captured him. How can we impliment them into our games, because I'm looking for a real challange lol.
"And what exactly are those "sins" that would justify mass murder?" Now to comment on the above quote, I would just like to remind everyone that there are little girls and boys in Africa and all over the world that are being violently raped and tortured (most likely at least 1 at this very moment). Now in my opinion, if we could vote to find the people who commited theses acts and pick them up before they did their damage and gather them all in one place and execute them all at once, they would have my vote for sure.
As far as the justice system goes, and all those agenst the death penalty and think life is a much more suitable punishment, I would like to say that putting a person in a box, and locking him away from sociaty will not change his views/values. There for if he were to escape he would go right back and continue doing whatever it is that he did. In my opinion, instead of seeking vengence and retribution, we should worry more on fixing people. Killing a murderer or making sure he suffers will not undo his damage, only add to the negative energy in the world.
In my opinion we should gather all criminals (not including drug addecs because I completely disagree that the goverment should regulate what substances we are allowed to insert into our bodies [and incase anyone is wondering yes I have tried some drugs but i am not an addec]) and try to help them. In my opinion everyone can be a "good" humanbeing if the right events accure to him. I once read an artical in a magizine (might have been national geographics) that conclude after testing (a fish with a really bad memory was put in a situation where he had to make a choice, and after his memory was loss of the previous choice he kept making the same choice), that animals and people will keep doing the samething unless something happens to them that makes them realize otherwise. What i mean by realise is actually understanding what they are doing (not just knowing what they are doing) and actually understanding why it's not a good thing and they have options. Now it can takes a really long time for someone to realize something like this. However i'm willing to bet money that 9times out of 10 it will happen faster if instead of being slammed into a box for a rediculous ammount of time, they are given professional help.
Now to get us all back on topic, in my opinion god would say that killing someone in this life is actually liberation. He has freed them and they are now reborn in a heaven some place where they are blessed with eternal blissful happyness. And since he is indeed god, he will finally prove it to us lol.
Last edited by PrenceOfDarkness; 01/17/07 07:06.
"There is no problem that can't be solved with time and determination." -me prenceofdarkness for instant messages on AIM.
Looking for a model designer PLEASE, SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE OR EMAIL IF YOU'RE INTERESTED.
|
|
|
Re: God's Defense Strategy
[Re: PrenceOfDarkness]
#105062
01/17/07 23:06
01/17/07 23:06
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718 Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
User
|
User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
|
Quote:
As far as the justice system goes, and all those agenst the death penalty and think life is a much more suitable punishment, I would like to say that putting a person in a box, and locking him away from sociaty will not change his views/values. There for if he were to escape he would go right back and continue doing whatever it is that he did.
The only thing is, escape really isn't very likely in a case like Saddam's.
Anyway, I meant to write much much more. But suffice it to say that most conservative christians (for now including myself) would say that God doesn't inflict these things upon us, but allows them to happen. The 'chaos' of natural disasters and so forth is just a consequence of the lack of His presence.
Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 01/17/07 23:09.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
|
|
|
Re: God's Defense Strategy
[Re: PHeMoX]
#105064
01/18/07 11:32
01/18/07 11:32
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986 Frankfurt
jcl
OP
Chief Engineer
|
OP
Chief Engineer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986
Frankfurt
|
Quote:
The 'chaos' of natural disasters and so forth is just a consequence of the lack of His presence.
God's lack of presence is certainly something we can agree upon - welcome to Atheism. Maybe this could even hint how to defend Him?
Back in the courtroom, the prosecutor has meanwhile finished his speech. He demands a total of 58,259,125 years in prison for God: 25 years per count of each of the 60,000 killings in Lisboa plus the 2,270,365 killings God boasted about in the Old Testament. Due to God's support of terrorists, the prison term is to be spent in Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo.
God has meanwhile shaven, showered, and is wearing a cheap gray business suit that makes Him look like a harmless insurance agent. He's put on a suspiciously confident smirk. Could he have found a defense strategy after all? His lawyer carries a big stack of books before the judge and demands them to be registered as evidence for the defense. The tension in the court room reaches boiling point. The journalists on the press balcony almost break their necks to catch a glimpse on the book covers. What books might that be?
|
|
|
|