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Re: Jesus has returned....erhem
[Re: PHeMoX]
#116465
03/14/07 19:37
03/14/07 19:37
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
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Quote:
Okey, second example; A lot of Christians always tend to say the church always said the earth was round instead of flat. Well, look in the bible and you'll find out that it only mentions 'circle', not sphere. At some point it mentions 'four corners of the earth' and as you'll understand a sphere doesn't have corners. Christians also claim the church said(!) the world was round, but there are plenty of quotes from sailors saying completely the opposite. Take this famous quote from Magellan: "The Church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the Church." I also wonder which people Christians mean when they say 'scientists' said the world was flat, since there is no record which proves this point, nor would such a generalisation fit. Lying? Manipulating? Well, I'm sorry, but from my point of view and considered the evidence, yes!
I'm sorry but for some reason people seem to always confuse the church with christianity in generl. Im not an expert at history nor am I a theologist, but as far as I can tell the church has NOT ever been an adequate example of what christianity is, and the reason for that is that the church is made up of people, sinners. Christianity on the other had is an idea, a belief, not necessarily do all of its followers do things right according to the bible. Espescially the church, the church in general has screwed itself over so many times that its not even funny, I mean come on, you have the crusades, you have catholocism which itself is a load of crap, you have several people in the pews who listen to preachers, but dont listen to any other athority, nor consult the bible, but instead just take on there pastor/preacher ideas as there own, without any self interpretation, you can never take the "church" seriously to tell you what christianity actually is.
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Re: Jesus has returned....erhem
[Re: PHeMoX]
#116467
03/17/07 04:45
03/17/07 04:45
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
OP
User
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OP
User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
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I don't understand why some Christians are so quick to criticize the church. Nevermind them providing decades of social aid, or the millions of families that have been counseled, lives that have been changed of the better and so forth. Quote:
As for the global history of most religions, the churches throughout history did decide practically all what would be taught to the people. Right down to the bible itself, you can't look at that book whilst ignoring the church's influence on it's entire content.
Yes you can. Information has been free for some time now, and there's no excuse for letting yourself be led around by the church. At least no good excuse, anyway.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Jesus has returned....erhem
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#116468
03/17/07 15:04
03/17/07 15:04
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
Yes you can. Information has been free for some time now, and there's no excuse for letting yourself be led around by the church. At least no good excuse, anyway.
Truth is you really can't because the history of the church actually decided what ended up in your precious bible. Off course, you are free to decide which parts of the bible you pick up and which you don't, and also which parts you will consider as good lessons and which you'll believe to be historical (eventhough evidence mostly will show you otherwise or makes it questionable, but you can always simply ignore that  ).
Cheers
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Re: Jesus has returned....erhem
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#116471
03/22/07 03:03
03/22/07 03:03
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
(which itself made the information on the bible extremely easy to find)
[sarcasm]Yeah,uuh so it's on the internet so it must be true[/sarcasm]
Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that. Besides, there's not even a consensus on the information about the canon selection for the bible. Thus, which scholar's theory do you believe ánd what historic information about these selections are actually true? It's a bit more complex than you suggest here and there's no single option either ...
The church through time did not give out information about everything they've ever changed to the canon, infact they didn't even write down whatever they've changed in the early times, that's a relatively modern thing. It's the very same thing why there's no way you can claim that the bible's content has remained 100% the same through time, 
Cheers
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Re: Jesus has returned....erhem
[Re: Stansmedia]
#116473
03/22/07 22:17
03/22/07 22:17
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
OP
User
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OP
User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
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Quote:
[sarcasm]Yeah,uuh so it's on the internet so it must be true[/sarcasm]
There is a lot of misinformation on the web. But there's also a lot of good information.
Quote:
Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that. Besides, there's not even a consensus on the information about the canon selection for the bible. Thus, which scholar's theory do you believe ánd what historic information about these selections are actually true? It's a bit more complex than you suggest here and there's no single option either ...
That's about as worrisome for me as I'm sure the disagreement over gradualism and punctuated equilibrium is for you.
Quote:
The church through time did not give out information about everything they've ever changed to the canon, infact they didn't even write down whatever they've changed in the early times, that's a relatively modern thing. It's the very same thing why there's no way you can claim that the bible's content has remained 100% the same through time,
Actually, its well referenced that certain passages were added to the bible, for instance Romans 8:1 used to be much shorter than it is in some translations (my bible reads the extended ending, but notes that the second half of the verse wasn't there to begin with).
Of course, a change like that isn't very threatening at all. So until proof of some threatening change comes along, I won't worry myself too much.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Jesus has returned....erhem
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#116474
03/22/07 23:33
03/22/07 23:33
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
Of course, a change like that isn't very threatening at all. So until proof of some threatening change comes along, I won't worry myself too much.
A lot of small changes eventually make up for a huge change. This is threatening in itself when it comes to integrity.
Besides, changes in texts about multiple Gods instead of one, reincarnation, women's position and origin (rib from adam or not) and for example details about Maria or Jesus's wife and children and what more are rather big changes imho...
Quote:
But there's also a lot of good information.
Yes, but it often takes (almost?) an expert to be able to determine wether the information is actually accurate or not. Some sites don't even state their sources, well I usually don't even bother to quote them, but still... Others use rather dodgy sources and the real errors can only be found if you check their 'original' sources, most people never check sources,
Cheers
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