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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: Kinji_2007]
#117430
03/17/07 23:03
03/17/07 23:03
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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"who was called Christ," -> this is actually interpretational and not part of the actual translation. Quote:
Its a known, accepted fact without debate.
Indeed and there are at least 12 of those, at least as far as I've read through. However many many people do not accept it as a fact.
Cheers
Last edited by PHeMoX; 03/18/07 04:09.
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: A.Russell]
#117431
03/17/07 23:11
03/17/07 23:11
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
Kinji_2007
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
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Quote:
Ran Man, if the story about your father wasn't true it would be very funny.
I am sorry for your loss. The part about him waiting so long to get one is a bit funny. :-)
Quote:
I am going to see if I can get some of those larger lego blocks and get some mates around to start on my tower a bit later today
You know if the right people see you trying this one of two things will happen. You'll be on TV if you get it high enough or you'll be in a straight jacket. lol Don't forget the krazy_glue. :-D
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: PHeMoX]
#117432
03/17/07 23:54
03/17/07 23:54
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
"who was called Christ," -> this is actually interpretational and not part of the actual translation.
OK. Yes I can accept that if you are familiar with the document you would know. Like the King James Bible, for example, any words in italics were added by the translation. Its a known, accepted fact without debate.
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: NITRO777]
#117433
03/18/07 01:55
03/18/07 01:55
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
Kinji_2007
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
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@ NITRO
Just curious to your thoughts on the "unknown" tongue. I know what Paul said.. in greek and of course translated. (NT KJV) But what is your opinion on modern day unknown tonque speakers?
Also if you could give your opinion on this.. "When that which is perfect is come, that which is part shall... etc" Sorry, just off the top of my head. Many people say that the "Bible" is the perfect thing and it has come.. thus we no longer work miracles and speak in the unknown tongue. IMO The Bible has slight errors due to human error thus it is not perfect and the scripture is talking about the 2nd coming of Christ. What is your opinion?
("We work miracles".. you know what I mean. :-) To God be the glory, we cannot do anything without Him as well as Paul and those who were before us.)
I grew up pentecostal. No TV, unknown tongue is evidence of the Holy_Ghost.. you know what I mean. One God and He was manifest in the flesh.. the name was Jesus. After getting a bit older I started to question every religion and every so called church that claimed Christianity. Some things I find interesting:
Catholic
duh. You can compare them to the Word and know where I am coming from.
Baptist
Still cant figure out the "once saved always saved bit"
Pentecostal
The unknown tongue is evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Without it you are lost.
Trinity
3 triune Gods.. is that the way to put it? To this I say of course BLAH
Oneness
Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost
What are your views?
Last edited by Kinji_2007; 03/18/07 02:28.
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: Kinji_2007]
#117434
03/18/07 02:48
03/18/07 02:48
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Just curious to your thoughts on the "unknown" tongue. I know what Paul said.. in greek and of course translated. (NT) But what is your opinion on modern day unknown tonque speakers?
I am an unknown tongue speaker so I have a pretty high opinion of them.  I also believe in miracles and healings through faith in the wounds of Jesus. I usually try to pray in toungues at least once a day. I'll show you some scriptural background for that another day.(pretty tired right now)
I have seen miracle after miracle occur in my life and I walk and talk with God on a regular basis, and so have millions of other people all over the world, but the majority of scientist still think we are crazy even though we all are telling them our experiences first hand.
So I would definitely agree that the "perfect" has not yet come
Here is an interesting wikipedia entry I read recently as linked to my reading in the (Feb or MArch 2007) issue of Discover magazine about Glossolalia actually slowing down the linguistic functioning in the brain, I believe that that is the extent of what they have done for scientific studies of the phenomena. Glossolalia (speaking in tongues) This is just in case anyone is interested in scientific side of it.
I pray in tongues for a variety of reasons.
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: NITRO777]
#117435
03/18/07 04:24
03/18/07 04:24
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
I have seen miracle after miracle occur in my life and I walk and talk with God on a regular basis, and so have millions of other people all over the world, but the majority of scientist still think we are crazy even though we all are telling them our experiences first hand.
Miracles by what definition? I've seen some absolute amazing things of life and thought those to be miracles. But those events were not close to impossible to happen or something like that.
By the way, the problem of experiences is that it's a way of seeing things, if we don't experience the same, we don't 'see'. Basically it's somewhere between 'believing' and 'knowing', because you can't prove you've had a certain experience, yet for yourself it might very well be 100% convincing. I would probably consider such experiences to be evidence myself, if I would have had one ... Scientists naturally consider those kind of things to be crazy simply because a.) you can't provide proof and b.) it could very well be 'just' inside your head indeed. There are plenty of crazy people already.
Having said that, I prefer looking at the evidence, but just like people claiming to be talking to God, I can't tell if they are crazy or if they are actually telling the truth. I would even go so far as to state that they are telling the truth from their perspective, however are those 'truths' part of our reality or their illusion? I may never know the answer to that question, like many others.
Quote:
This is just in case anyone is interested in scientific side of it.
Thanks, this is interesting indeed.
Cheers
Last edited by PHeMoX; 03/18/07 04:32.
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: PHeMoX]
#117436
03/18/07 07:25
03/18/07 07:25
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
JibbSmart
Expert
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WA, Australia
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Quote:
Baptist
Still cant figure out the "once saved always saved bit"
i'm baptist. i haven't been baptised. baptism isn't believed to be necessary to be saved, but more a symbol of the cleansing of the soul, and a public display of one's faith. to be put quite simply, baptists in general agree with the idea of one being baptized, but it isn't compulsory, and it should only be done with their permission (as opposed to catholics and anglicans baptizing at birth). i'm afraid i don't understand what you mean by the "still cant figure out" bit. once you are saved, you are...
always...
...saved! yes, that's it! what don't you/we get?
check wikipedia if you have any questions.
anyway, that thread was an interesting read  i found A.Russell's posts the most entertaining
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: PissedOffGuy]
#117437
03/18/07 08:17
03/18/07 08:17
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986
Frankfurt
jcl
OP
Chief Engineer
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OP
Chief Engineer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,986
Frankfurt
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Quote:
After our second child, i had a vecectomy. Apparently, it didn't work, and my wife is pregnant now. If she keeps the baby, she'll have to quit her job, and my salary alone is not enough for all of us, let alone another baby in the family. Now if you or RanMan know what to do better than me and my wife do, please let us know. I'm sure your advices will pay our hospital bills and everything
The only reason i'm sharing this great story with the rest of you, is so you can all see how it really is when things get personal. I don't want to Hear about another discussion, about the pros and cons of iraq war, and abortions and whatever you call it. Here i am.. The person that has to deal with all this sh1t. Come and tell me in my face ranman or whoever else, that saying no to abortions is the way to jesus... give it to me... straight to my face
Pissedoff: You are not the only nor the first one in such a situation. You're probably aware that no God will come to your rescue. But this also means that no God nor any Christians are to blame for your situation. Rambling won't gain you anything.
When considering whether or not to do an abortion, listen to your conscience. The bible won't help - Christianity is not fit to give you moral advice in such a matter. Nor will the law help you. The society decided that early abortion is not murder, and leaves the decision up to you.
You need to make yourself clear that it's _you_ to decide what you want to do, not malignant neighbors and your financial situation. You can decide as long as you have a chance, even if it's small. If your salary is not sufficient, think about ways to earn more. There is no God or miracle to help you, but you can at least try to help yourself. You decide and then accept the consequences.
If you want advices, ask people who have done an abortion some years before. Just ask: "In the same situation, would you do it again?" Maybe you'll be surprised by the answers.
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: NITRO777]
#117438
03/18/07 10:50
03/18/07 10:50
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
Kinji_2007
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
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@ NITRO Here is where I attended in my younger years. If you are home one wed or sun check out the live feed. FPC They document medical records for proof of miracles. Some of you should watch. As for tongues.. I have studied them all my life. I thought I would get a outsiders view on them.. your not a outsider. lol :-) @ JulzMighty I have a couple of guys that work for me and both try to explain the baptist faith but usually it turns into a debate. They think that if you accept the Lord as you personal Savior then you are saved. I dont exactly disagree yet. From that point on they cannot lose that salvation based on their actions. When speaking of the Baptist faith in south Mississippi the first thing that people think is "Once saved always saved". That is the part that I cannot grasp. How in the world do they talk themselves into believeing that? :-) Another thing I would like to ask the Christians is this: When you pray do you use the name of Jesus or do you pray to the Father? Regardless of Trinity or oneness... what verbal words do you use? All my life I have thought that by using the name Jesus.. I have been praying to the Father because Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Rational thinking kicks in as I go back to where the diciples wanted to learn to pray. He tought them. I have been directly disobeying His teaching because He did not want us using His name in prayer. You get my point or am I rambling? lol
Last edited by Kinji_2007; 03/18/07 10:53.
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Re: Bible apologetics
[Re: PHeMoX]
#117439
03/18/07 10:50
03/18/07 10:50
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Miracles by what definition? I've seen some absolute amazing things of life and thought those to be miracles. But those events were not close to impossible to happen or something like that.
Well, I have read a book about chaos theory and its attempts to study apparently random phenomena such as swirling smoke, butterfly effects upon global weather, air turbulence and prediction of moving water molecules, yet there havent been any conclusive, satisfying theories made to model these types of phenomena. So how can you claim to know what is impossible or possible? Even physics cannot pinpoint the reasons for a large group of things which happen.
Yet I have seen things happen which are well beyond the musings of chaos theory. Things which are statistically impossible. Things like people showing up at precise times in precise locations, plants growing where they never could, people being healed with medical confirmations, and perhaps the most miraculous: people much more stubborn than you becoming born again Christians and becoming the new driver of the church bus.
Quote:
because you can't prove you've had a certain experience, yet for yourself it might very well be 100% convincing. I would probably consider such experiences to be evidence myself, if I would have had one
It doesnt matter that we cant 'prove' such experiences, you already have millions of people saying they have had them. That in itself is proof enough.
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