Viva piñata is a piece of crap , why even worry about it's shaders , they only use shaders so that the game will be taken seriously , but you can achieve a similar looking pile of garbage withought them as well.

Agreed. It looks retarded. But at least it has good graphics [overuse of shaders]...

well, it's a quite good game. I actually like the style

It's a stupid game , that did poorly in sales , because no one wants to play it. Yes , I can see all the shaders and nice lighting and shadow system , but it's all wasted for such a cartoony looking game , why even bother going through the trouble of having all those shaders and nice lighting/shadow system in a game where you really wont notice them or care for them. Beautifull shadows are really appreciated in a game like silent hill or resident evil , or doom 3 , but no one will even pay attention to them in a game like viva piñata , same with normals mapping and HDR lighting and all that nice stuff , all appreciated in games like HL2 , Gears of War , and the like, but pretty much go unnoticed in a game as cartoony and weird as viva piñata. Now , to make my point clear , I'm not saying the dev team behind viva piñata shouldnt have used them , because they are more than likely a team thats backed by a good publisher and with ample funding , so implementing next gen things like shaders is almost a must for them , but for us , the indies , it would really be a waste of time to go thorugh all the trouble of implementing all those nice systems for a game that looks like that , you can achieve a very similar looking game with just slightly above average poly count on your models , and colorfull textures , which is why my reply read , "why even worry about it's shaders" , because if you are an indie with a small or no budget , why waste your time , it's not worth it unless your going for a gears of war type title , other than that i'd say forget about shaders , and concentrate on style and gameplay.

What's your source for this? Rare's games usually sell rather well..

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other than that i'd say forget about shaders , and concentrate on style and gameplay.

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This is something I really agree with though, it should be in a sticky in the 'Starting with Gamestudio' threads. Don't focus on shaders at all as long as the game style and gameplay are total crap. Those need to be good first, otherwise no shader in the world would do any good.

Cheers

Its a fine line. I think the potential of shaders can help create some unique looking games like Killer7 and Okami when used in the right manner. Though both of these games could be just as playable if ultra realistic shaders were thrown at them, they would not be so appealing.

Yes, but that has everything to do with their style, not necessarily the use or absence of shaders in these games. Both are pretty solid games, the shaders are not just a gimmick so to say,

Cheers

I'd say this is an effective use of shaders to reinforce a unique visual design.

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because if you are an indie with a small or no budget , why waste your time , it's not worth it unless your going for a gears of war type title , other than that i'd say forget about shaders

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Why? It's not like it's a huge deal to add or use a shader in an indie game. I have been developing my indie project for 3 years without shaders, in a6 extra, creating what I hope is a unique visual style. For me to put a little post-processing bloom shader on top of it has been easy and opened up a new graphic design dimension. It is another paintbrush for the studio. New technology is not a substitute for design or creativity, but like anything, it is about the designer.

Some people make the same "why bother if you are an indie" comments about working in 3D instead of flash, too!

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that did poorly in sales , because no one wants to play it. Yes , I can see all the shaders and nice lighting and shadow system , but it's all wasted for such a cartoony looking game

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I think poor sales would have more to do with their demographic base-- VP is a Nintendo style game, made for a mostly sports-action console. It's refreshing to see MS at least try to use their acquisition of Rare for something different. (Poor Rare!)