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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Ran Man]
#122079
04/11/07 04:22
04/11/07 04:22
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Sure, it's history, however they all claimed to be "Christians". Quote:
What pope did that? The pope <a spiritual leader> did not.
The pope hated homosexuals and the like back then too. The Holocaust was not just about Jews and basically it's about the support Christianity gave to it. The Christian churches weren't exactly neutral.
Quote:
The fossil record is still missing --> Fish to Man, evidence.
If we all came from fish, then there is no evidence of that in the fossil record.
There is plenty of evidence, although 'fish' might be inaccurate to some extent. If you go back far enough it's probably true indeed, but there are some significantly different species in between us and the fish in our evolution, that's for certain.
Quote:
Please remember to not kill us okay? LOL
Lol, afraid?  There you generalize again I guess.
Cheers
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#122080
04/11/07 10:12
04/11/07 10:12
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
Matt_Aufderheide
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
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Quote:
fundamentalist Christians are just as dangerous as fundamentalist Muslims. One need look no further than the Holocaust....
While I dont disagree with your main point, what the hell does the holocuast have to do with fundemantalist Christians?.. the Nazis werent fundies or even really Christian..
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Ran Man]
#122081
04/11/07 10:15
04/11/07 10:15
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
Kinji_2007
OP
Member
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 183
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Muslim and Christians both agree that Jesus was alive at one time. He was great, we both agree. He was born of a virgin mother, we both agree. We even agree that he performed miracles. ;-) My thought is this..
If He is so great then why would he lie? He made claims to be the Son of God. At the time some books (NT) were written, people were still alive that heard Jesus teach. If the NT was completely wrong then people would have stomped these claims right then. We cant be sure exactly WHEN each book was written but one that I am settled on is the Gospel of Matthew. It was written somewhere around 60AD. Many of the people that knew Jesus or seen Him would have surly stood up and said something to this effect, "Thats a lie, I heard Jesus teach and he never claimed to be the Son of God!". We have to assume that He DID make this claim.
As for His death... thats not even worth a debate. Checking historical records other than the Bible we can believe with no doubt that He did in fact die by roman hands.
The Muslim belief does not at all hinder our views on Jesus. It can actually help us and increase our faith when just a small amount of common sense is added.
:-D Let us rejoice! We share these beliefs..
1) Jesus was sent from God.
2) He was born of a virgin mother.
3) He performed miracles.
4) Since even the Muslims agree that he was so great then we have to assume that in NO way would he lie. He is in fact the Son of God as He claimed to be.
5) Evidense to support the FACT that He died by roman hand is far greater than proof that He didnt.
In conclusion: To the Muslims.. Wanna come to church? ;-) Jesus loves you.
Just a thought.. Islam is based on a vision. A guy meditates and gets a vision and a whole religion is born. He offers no devine insight, no miracles, nothing more than ordinary. (We're talking about Mohammad) It is hard to believe that you would follow these teachings (Quran) over the ones in the Bible if Mohammad even insisted that Jesus was so GREAT.
Last edited by Kinji_2007; 04/11/07 10:44.
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Matt_Aufderheide]
#122083
04/11/07 11:46
04/11/07 11:46
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,320
Alberta, Canada
William
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,320
Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
fundamentalist Christians are just as dangerous as fundamentalist Muslims. One need look no further than the Holocaust....
I too don't remember the holocaust having anything to do with Christians causing it. Where are you coming from with this?
Quote:
Sure, it's history, however they all claimed to be "Christians".
While I cannot confirmed who claimed to be Christians in history, I can say I've seen many people claiming to be all sorts of things, in the present day. I really hope you aren't simply basing your spiritual life or understanding off of what people claim. 
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: William]
#122084
04/11/07 15:40
04/11/07 15:40
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
I too don't remember the holocaust having anything to do with Christians causing it. Where are you coming from with this?
I didn't mean to say Christianity has been responsible for the Holocaust per say, that probably would be wrong, it's moreso that it has been a 'tool of control' throughout the rise of the nazis and the Holocaust is simply the most evil thing they ever did. There are people saying Churches actually preached anti-Antisemitism back then.
There are many many Muslims who say suicide bombers are not real Muslims, compare it to that, but ask any suicide bomber and they'll tell you they are infact true Muslims.
Basically this is were I was coming from:
Hitler wanted to establish a new religion, with himself as the prophet. Felix Kersten, Himmler's confidante, found a variety of religious books in Himmler's library, and Himmler explained to him " I am to prepare a new Nazi religion. I am to draft the new Bible, the Bible of the faith.... The Fuhrer has decided that, after the victory of the Third Reich, he will abolish Christianity throughout Great Germany, and establish the faith on its ruins. The latter will preserve the idea of God, but it will be very vague and indistinct. The Fuhrer will replace Christ as the savior of humanity. Thus, millions and millions of people will say only Hitler's name in their prayers, and a hundred years from now nothing will be known but the new religion, which will endure for centuries."
Sure, because they lost, part of this never reached that state they wanted, but fact is Christianity was used (abused). I agree with anyone saying that this may not have much to do with Christianity itself, but if they'd won the war it would have been dramatically different. It's not just the ideology, it's also the method of (in)direct control through religion.
Another quote:
"The degree, in which the Bystander Nations (Christians) helped the Nazis, determined the Jewish survival rate. Judging from the dismal survival rate, especially in Eastern Europe, the Germans received extensive cooperation from the Bystander Nations."
Quote:
I really hope you aren't simply basing your spiritual life or understanding off of what people claim.
I understand what you mean, but you can't ignore they were people like you and me calling themselves 'Christians'. One way or the other, it's about their ideology driving them to act.
Cheers
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#122085
04/11/07 18:57
04/11/07 18:57
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
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Quote:
but ask any suicide bomber and they'll tell you they are infact true Muslims.
Yes, true, but somebody show me a "Christian" suicide bomber?
If fundamentalist christianity was just as dangerous as fundamentalist islam is,as you have posted, then surely there should be one somewhere? 
Where are the christian suicider's? 
Where? Onward christian soldiers...
Btw, our Algerian friend might be concerned.
Because according to the link below, then Allah has struck again today in Algeria.
Deadly Algiers bombings:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18052918/
I wonder what he thinks of this? Poor Algeria. 
Now why do these terrorist do this in the name of their god? Why?
Please Mr. killer, please don't kill me just yet for Allah, because i have to finish my game for God first...
Haha! too funny, oh well back to work. 
Nice talking with everyone!
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Ran Man]
#122086
04/11/07 19:25
04/11/07 19:25
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 357
Florida
Hellcrypt
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 357
Florida
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I don't know why you are acting like an [censored] there Ran Man. Although Albanians are not very religious Muslims, we still believe in god, yet I do not see us running around suicide bombing others.
Just because we are a Muslim does not mean we will kill you...
Look at WW2; Pearl Harbor, they where not Muslims yet they sacrificed themselves. Every country has special soldiers where they will give their lives in order to protect what they believe in. I do not support any of the bombing that are happening, but by categorizing all Muslims into killers is plain wrong. This people are brain washed to kill others and themselves in the process. I believe there where massive suicide cults here in the US as well. I am sure a lot of this people where Christians as well, so tell me what's the difference?
Please stop putting down people because of their religion. A lot of Muslim people you will meet (like myself) are really nice.
I do not solve problems.... I prevent them.
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Hellcrypt]
#122087
04/11/07 20:30
04/11/07 20:30
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
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Quote:
Just because we are a Muslim does not mean we will kill you...
Please stop putting down people because of their religion.
Hi
The jonetown cult in the 70's killed themselves and not tried to kill off a population.  In contrast, today's suicide bombers want to kill somebody else.
I was only thinking of the good bombers at the story below.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18052918/
Not thinking of every and all muslim.
I'm glad you don't want to kill, but maybe you should, because the koran says to do it.
Quote:
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme"
( Koran 8:39 )
Now that word - UNTIL - is a time frame. Is the world muslim now? No, it is not, so you are supposed to kill and make war until that happens.
Right now, I'm making a game for God.
So, DON'T kill me!
After I get done with the game, then go ahead and kill me.
Btw, hey did you guys know that I got banned from a christian forum once for posting too much Koran? LOL
Yeah, the wimpy christians there banned me from their forum, because I showed them that Allah is not the biblical God. Some christians there were trying to say that Allah and Jehova were similiar. HAHA!
Aggh, the truth hurts. Don't we all just prefer ignorance, yes?
Last edited by Ran Man; 04/11/07 20:31.
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Ran Man]
#122088
04/11/07 22:05
04/11/07 22:05
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
Matt_Aufderheide
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
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Quote:
Yes, true, but somebody show me a "Christian" suicide bomber?
While I'm sure there are and have been such things, even if there aren't it doesn't prove Christians are incapable of such acts, only that they are not normally in a position to do such things. This kind of action generally results from a feeling of extreme desperation and oppression, and today most Christian poeple are not in this situation.
It is true however that Jesus taught what is essentially non-violence (turn the other cheek) and acceptance of temporal political oppression in favor of the rewards of heaven(render unto Caesar)..
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