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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#122109
04/12/07 22:42
04/12/07 22:42
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
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Quote:
By the way, didn't Bush start a war in Iraq? Isn't Bush a Christian?
HEY! im a christian, and trust me, I am in no way in favor of what bush is doing, there is no way that smug stuttering, half-retarded dumass should be allowed to be an example of what a christian really is.
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Ran Man]
#122111
04/13/07 10:59
04/13/07 10:59
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
Robotronic
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
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Quote:
Btw, here is a verse below regarding the Byzantine empire.
The Romans have been defeated.
The Quran Sura 30:2
Of course this has absolutely nothing to do with the finall fall of the Byzantine empire, which happened in 1453.
The Qur´an was written several centuries before this and the passage, that you quote was a reference to a battle between the Persians and the Romans in 615 AD.
The fall of the Byzantine empire - and I don´t know, why I should deplore this - started in 1215 AD with the fourth crusade:
Quote:
The Fourth Crusade was an unparalelled military and political catastrophe for the Byzantine Empire. The armies of the Crusade, originally planning to attack Fatimid Egypt, ended up sacking and occupying Constantinople. The irony of sworn defenders of Christianity despoiling the largest and wealthiest city in Christendom was not lost on the Byzantines, who despised the Catholic West for centuries afterwards. [...]
According to a prearranged treaty, the Byzantine empire was dissolved and its territories divided between Venice and the Latin Empire of Constantinople. The Greek Orthodox clergy were displaced by Latin Catholic clergy, while the nobility were displaced by Latin feudal barons. Byzantine exiles fled Constantinople, taking refuge in Nicaea, Trebizond, and Epirus.
link
When the Ottoman Turks finally captured Constantinople, they simply put up what was left.
You might also have a deeper look at the history of Spain. Here the Muslims were invited to assist a certain Julian, count of Ceuta, in his power struggle with Roderic and the Roman Catholic church.
I do not say, that all Muslim nations were peaceful all the time. There were certainly imperial aspects too and lots of clashes with the Christian empires.
But compare the way Jews and Christians were treated by Muslims - for example, when they captured Spain, with the way Christians treated Muslims and Jews - for example, when the crusaders captured Jerusalem.
While Christians for centuries regarded every non-Christian as sub-human, a form of tolerance - especially towards Christians and Jews was part of Islam from the beginning. The Christians came to appreciate these values only centuries later (see enlightenment).
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Robotronic]
#122112
04/13/07 12:09
04/13/07 12:09
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205
Greece
LarryLaffer
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205
Greece
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Quote:
Btw, I tried to talk to a citizen of Byzantium recently, but they died off a long time ago.
Are you like... an idiot? If you mean you didn't know that a country called "Byzantium" does not exist in the modern world, until you googled out that they all... died off.. then.. wow.. Then again, if you mean you tried to find people that have roots from the Byzantium, then they didn't all 'implode' when Byzantium fell, like how you destroy all buildings on a red alert 2 game, and the troops just all die out.
Constantinoupoli, once the Byzantium capital, is now called Istanbul and makes up for near the new borders between Greece and Turkey. Greek minorities still live in Istanbul, who's great-great-great.. grandfathers were from Byzantium, and they all have great stories to tell. They all live in harmony with Turks now, and despite Turks being evil blood lusting muslims, they've somehow developed a very beneficial relationship, and lots of weddings happen between Greeks and Turks. My sources are not from wikipedia or history sites, but because I have family there.
The war between Greece and Turkey was hardly a religious one, at any period of time. We both share the Aigeo pelagos, which is an invaluable asset for high-seas trading, and both Greece and Turkey have tried to occupy the coasts of the opposite country in many wars. Constantinoupoli itself was an outstanding trading and war-tactical point, by being in the middle of three continents, Europe, Asia and Africa. Saying that Turkey leaders once looked up their Korans and decided to kick some Christian ass by invading Constantinoupoli, probably after doing a 5-min google "research", to me comes as a shock. Normally, If i don't have sufficient background knowledge about a subject I refrain from saying anything, but if I have to, i'll try to educate myself by studying at least 10-20 different sources, before giving my own opinion. If nothing else, it prevents me from making an ass of myself.
I shouldn't have called you an idiot, and i apologise for that on reserve. I will also refrain from keep posting here because, I bet everything i got, that it won't lead anywhere. The only reason i made this post, is my total suprise of your post that I'm refering to. I know there's no way to say this without sounding offending but.. have you ever attempted to do an IQ test? Seriously, i'm not being a wise-guy, i would just be interested to know your score, if you ever had one.
yeah, i'm sure you'll get insulted by that, and maybe you'd have a reason to.. but i'll leave the post stand anyway.. I can't possibly get along with everyone..
Cheers,
Aris
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: LarryLaffer]
#122113
04/13/07 12:56
04/13/07 12:56
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Are you like... an idiot?
In fairness to Ran_Man he is definitely not an idiot, hes a programmer at IBM and has been for years, plus I have talked to him on the phone and I can tell he is pretty smart. But he is making a big mess on this forum which apparently he is going to just let the other Christians here clean up after he dissappears again.
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1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.
2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.
3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.
4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.
5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.
6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.
7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.
1-4 yes.
5 not exactly, the passage is talking about ISRAELIS who leave to worship other gods.
6 not really, 1)Jesus is not upholding OT law 2)these are not disobedient children, they are cursing their parents
7)no, its a parable about the Father, and the afterlife
Quote:
The whole concept of Jews being a wicked people who do not deserve to live goes back to the 11th century, the age of the crusades. The Second crusade failed to accomplish its goals, and as a sort of compensation killed all Jews in the cities on their way back. Since then, jewish pogroms and massacres regularly occured in most Christian cities. The only countries where jews could live in peace were countries under Islamic rule
No, the Jew-killing concept go back much further than the 11th century, it probably started with various tribes,then Egypt, then Assyria, then Babylon, then Persia, then Greece, then Rome. After Rome the Jews lost their land and were persecuted throughout the world.
Pound for Pound the Jews are arguably the toughest, most adaptable, most enduring race on earth. Its ironic then that the eugenic environment which propelled Hitlers ideas would see the aryans as the most fit race.
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#122114
04/13/07 16:06
04/13/07 16:06
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
Irish_Farmer
User
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User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 718
Wisconsin
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Quote:
There are more terrorists now than before both wars.
I'm sorry...what? Did you take a survey of terrorists before and after the war?
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"Misrepresentation" as in how? You say the inquisition wasn't Christian or what? Feel free to open a new thread for this btw as this will inevitably go off topic in the current thread.
The inquisition has become more myth than anything, mostly fueled by skeptical criticism of Christianity. At this point, it appears that most people don't know the truth behind the matter, they just reference the inquisition in the assumption that everyone else will think it was a bloodbath at the hands of lunatic Christians.
This guy will not only lay it out better than I can, or care to, but he also will probably head off any initial rebuttles you would have to the issue.
Quote:
HEY! im a christian, and trust me, I am in no way in favor of what bush is doing, there is no way that smug stuttering, half-retarded dumass should be allowed to be an example of what a christian really is.
rofl...the irony.
Last edited by Irish_Farmer; 04/13/07 16:41.
"The task force finds that...the unborn child is a whole human being from the moment of fertilization, that all abortions terminate the life of a human being, and that the unborn child is a separate human patient under the care of modern medicine."
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Ran Man]
#122115
04/13/07 19:15
04/13/07 19:15
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
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Quote:
Yes, true, but somebody show me a "Christian" suicide bomber?
If fundamentalist christianity was just as dangerous as fundamentalist islam is,as you have posted, then surely there should be one somewhere? 
Show me how how many Christians live in the same miserable conditions as the the Phalestinians in the strip of Gaza ?
The point is that fanatism has nothing to do neither with religion nor race rather with economic situation
Islam is at least as advanced as modern Christian religion from an ethic point of view simply because midlle east was the craddle of the civilty at the time of prophet Mohamed while we, europeans were hundred years behind
Christians pretend to forget some embarassing part of the old testament but they should not not forget that Jews were a savage population at the time the Bible has been written
You can not expect something different
Your stomach, your religion
I dont want to offend the feelings of religious people both Christian and Muslins but this is the crude , bloody truth
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: Irish_Farmer]
#122116
04/13/07 23:29
04/13/07 23:29
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
I'm sorry...what? Did you take a survey of terrorists before and after the war?
Do surveys do you any good when asking around if anyone is a terrorist? Stupid question, stupid method. Besides, look at the amount of attacks within the short timespan of about 5 to 10 years, you'll see there have been more and because a large amount are actually suicide bombings, there simply have to be more than before.
Quote:
The inquisition has become more myth than anything, mostly fueled by skeptical criticism of Christianity. At this point, it appears that most people don't know the truth behind the matter, they just reference the inquisition in the assumption that everyone else will think it was a bloodbath at the hands of lunatic Christians.
The inquisition isn't a myth, nor is Christianity's role in it. Those lunatics in control called themselves Christians, had Christian followers and did horrible and disgusting things in the name of Christianity. Back to my quote I don't see what has been 'misrepresentated' about that.
Quote:
Pound for Pound the Jews are arguably the toughest, most adaptable, most enduring race on earth.
Uuhm, Jews are not a race. (Nor does a superior race exist, we really are all equal. Let's assume for a second that 'selection' has been tough on the "race" of Jews, our knowledge only goes back ~2000 years. 2000 years on the evolutionary scale is close to nothing and don't forget most if not all other races survived too. I can't see any reason to assume ANY race would be superior to another and I really mean ANY.  )
Cheers
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#122117
04/13/07 23:45
04/13/07 23:45
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
San Francisco
JetpackMonkey
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
San Francisco
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Quote:
Show me how how many Christians live in the same miserable conditions as the the Phalestinians in the strip of Gaza
Just go to Mexico or the Phillipines, Africa, South America, Romania, there are plenty of christians living in third world conditions. It's totally wrong to assume that Christian = North American / European and wealthy. (that doesn't stop the pope from sitting atop a castle of gold)
BY the way, bush calls himself a christian, but he's a methodist-- which is actually a very "christianity lite" kind of church-- in fact the methodists are pretty chill compared to others -- Bush plays up the christian thing to appeal to southern baptists. It's all about the post-Goldwater "southern strategy" to attract southern baptists, who will always vote for the candidate who plays up the sensationalist christian issues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
Republicans weren't like that before Reagan.
Hellcrypt I am with you on this, by the way. There is a climate of ignorance and prejudice driven solely by fear and xenophobia in America, and it makes me so mad. Islam is a beautiful religion practiced by a highly ethical, introspective and devout people, with a discipline that I find admirable. I have never met a Muslim I did not like (and having lived in NW London, I met many).
It's so stupid and myopic to identify an entire religious group with a very small minority whose actions are questionable. If you want to talk about murderers, we American taxpayers have more blood on our hands than the sum total of people killed in suicide bombings. Then there's also the Irish religious conflict and the bombings going on there.
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Re: Any Muslims here?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#122118
04/14/07 01:14
04/14/07 01:14
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
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Quote:
Uuhm, Jews are not a race. I can't see any reason to assume ANY race would be superior to another and I really mean ANY
It hardly matters what your definitions of a race are. It really only matters what your definition of 'superior' is, in selection it is all about 'survival of the fittest' and all I am saying is that in my humble opinion, even though I dont think like Nazi's, if I did, even according to Darwinist standards the Jews seem much more 'fit' 'superior' 'strong' whatever then any nation on earth based upon many observations.
Quote:
(Nor does a superior race exist, we really are all equal.)
Well I know that already, however the Nazis were influenced by strong naturalistic thinking: concepts such as freedom and equality are inconsistent with evolutionary theory, since they are based on the idea of innate human rights. These ideals would have to give way before the right of the stronger in the struggle for existence.
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