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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#127298
05/10/07 15:42
05/10/07 15:42
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate
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Bay City, MI
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I completely agree with rhuarc, aside from one other person he's the only one that I've ever seen that thinks the same about Christianity that I do. The biggest problem today is that too many Christians are like that kid in high school who will compete with anyone, and will follow everyone else to be in the "in crowd". To the typical Christians for some reason they like to appear to be the "best Christian" to all others instead of actually focusing on there relationship with Christ, and god forbid you speak out about this type of "Christian" because, you know, jesus never spoke out when he some things in the church's were going wrong... right?... no. But then again he was crucified for it, so i guess that is just too much for the typical "christian" huh?
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: lostclimate]
#127299
05/10/07 16:15
05/10/07 16:15
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,298
Beverly, Massachusetts
Rhuarc
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I completely agree with rhuarc, aside from one other person he's the only one that I've ever seen that thinks the same about Christianity that I do. The biggest problem today is that too many Christians are like that kid in high school who will compete with anyone, and will follow everyone else to be in the "in crowd". To the typical Christians for some reason they like to appear to be the "best Christian" to all others instead of actually focusing on there relationship with Christ, and god forbid you speak out about this type of "Christian" because, you know, jesus never spoke out when he some things in the church's were going wrong... right?... no. But then again he was crucified for it, so i guess that is just too much for the typical "christian" huh?
Thanks  . I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this similar viewpoint. I'm not going to necessarily condemn those who try to be the "best Christian," mostly because I can't really know. If they flat out said that that was their focus, I'd probably refute it, but only if I knew them on a personal level. Someone they don't know refuting their line of thought would come across the opposite that it was intended. In the end, unless I know the person and we are mutually accountable to eachother, I don't say much about what they believe- it's God's place to judge.
This criticism and opinion is directed towards a generalized Christian audience...
Another thing that I see in the world is Christians trying to condemn the actions of an unbeliever. This is a rare exception to the rule of not addressing it with someone I don't know very well. I cannot think of a single place in the Bible where Jesus condemns a non-believer. In fact, Paul says (can't remember where, Corinthians I think) that it is foolish to think that someone who does not believe will understand the things of God (and his morals). Because they don't believe in God, they don't have a concrete or familiar basis for a moral code, which means they can't understand why one thing is wrong and another isn't as you would try to explain. (Not saying there wouldn't be any agreement, there would be, but where there is disagreement, using the Bible is useless since they don't believe it anyway) It's futile to yell at the world for it's sins, since it doesn't understand it is sinful, or that it should be concerned about it. Someone first has to realize they are fallen before they can get up. While we Christians attack the "hot issues" floating above today, the world is taking pot-shots at our foundation. We're trying to shoot down arrows, while they are cutting our legs away.
-Rhuarc
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Rhuarc]
#127300
05/10/07 17:06
05/10/07 17:06
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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This is a double-edged question, really. Do I feel I do? Definitely not. Do I try? Yes.
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I'm not going to necessarily condemn those who try to be the "best Christian," mostly because I can't really know
You contradict yourself, in one post you say you try, in the next you say have to would not condemn those who "try".
Christians who sin without remorse are walking contradictions, clearly seen and mocked by this world, and put Christ to an open shame. They think the world loves them and embraces their "tolerance", but mostly the world despises them for their compromises. Of these Peter speaks about in the following verse:
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While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
And the writer of Hebrews sums it up nicely.
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For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Of course, everyone must judge where they are with God. I have no idea about the status of others' soul, and I hate to admit it, but generally I dont care. If someone's going to hell purposely, and they have already heard the gospel and believed, personally I wouldnt waste much time on them. Why should I? They already have the facts to make a decision, and they are old enough to do so.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: NITRO777]
#127301
05/10/07 17:45
05/10/07 17:45
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,298
Beverly, Massachusetts
Rhuarc
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This is a double-edged question, really. Do I feel I do? Definitely not. Do I try? Yes.
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I'm not going to necessarily condemn those who try to be the "best Christian," mostly because I can't really know
You contradict yourself, in one post you say you try, in the next you say have to would not condemn those who "try".
I never said I try to be the "best Christian" (in the context of a competition is how I meant that). I try to do the best with what I am given.
My point is this: Yes, I sin. So do you. It's there. It isn't that I don't work on these things, it's that I choose to focus firstly on the relationship I have with Christ, secondly with working on those things which bring others down, and lastly on my own inner struggles. What I said above is where I am at. I'm not perfect, but I'm working towards being the best I can. My opinion is, so what? I sin. I can be honest about it. I don't try to hide it or cover it up. Everyone knows that noone can be perfect, and trying to pretend like you aren't an imperfect human being to someone you are trying to "convert" or whatever is trying to sell something more than what you really are. You're trying to sell perfection, when you yourself are not perfect. If I witness to someone, I start by telling them that I'm the same as them- I screw up, I am far from perfect myself. Then I listen and hear where they are coming from. I'm not going to condemn them for it because it doesn't matter if they change their ways, it only matters if they give their life to Christ in the end. That isn't my decision to make, all I can do is present it. If they don't accept, fine. It's their decision, the blood is off of my hands. BUT- that doesn't mean I'm going to abandon them. I will still be there as a friend to be there to listen when they need it, regardless of their decision- and I may never even bring the subject up again.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: lostclimate]
#127302
05/10/07 18:20
05/10/07 18:20
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
I completely agree with rhuarc, aside from one other person he's the only one that I've ever seen that thinks the same about Christianity that I do. The biggest problem today is that too many Christians are like that kid in high school who will compete with anyone, and will follow everyone else to be in the "in crowd". To the typical Christians for some reason they like to appear to be the "best Christian" to all others instead of actually focusing on there relationship with Christ, and god forbid you speak out about this type of "Christian" because, you know, jesus never spoke out when he some things in the church's were going wrong... right?... no. But then again he was crucified for it, so i guess that is just too much for the typical "christian" huh?
Interesting. It's exactly how some (Dutch) Christians in my neighborhood are behaving. As if it's "cool" to be a Christian. Well, I'm sure it is cool and all, no offense to anyone, but being part of the 'in crowd' shouldn't be the number one goal when it comes to belief. I bet quite a few don't even honestly believe at all, but just want to be part of something.
Unfortunately, in the Netherlands religious people are becoming more fanatical, Christians too, because there are less and less of them, but instead of focusing on things that really matter, it becomes more and more important to let people see that it's cool to be part of the 'in crowd', as if it's a secret society which involves magic and God knows what... it's aimed at convincing people to join so bad they loose sight of the real important things. Lol, and I'm not even a Christian,
Cheers
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Rhuarc]
#127303
05/10/07 18:23
05/10/07 18:23
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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never said I try to be the "best Christian" (in the context of a competition is how I meant that). I try to do the best with what I am given.
oh ok, I understand now, it just sounds weird to me that kinji and lostclimate, yourself and some others here seem to bash all the other Christians for a)either being too legalistic or competitive b)not being legalistic enough and when I try to find the truth between the two viewpoints the only thing that matters to me is thus:
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that I choose to focus firstly on the relationship I have with Christ
Which I agree with 100%. However, if you say you care about Jesus, how can you hate other Christians? Especially since Jesus is supposed to be living in the hearts of those who believe? Im not saying your a hater, Im not saying anyone is, but if you more concerned whether someone in the world is gonna get their toes stepped on because you live a good life, are you going to change your ways just to make them happy? If Im trying to let people know the love of Christ is for those who have abortions should I have my wife have an abortion just so that I can show them that I can relate? Or should I all of a sudden say that abortion is ok because I dont want to hurt anyone's feelings? I dont believe so, I believe abortion is murder, I will never stop beliveing that, I would always call a spade a spade. I think homosexuality is perverse, I think sex before marriage is profane, I think alcohol is a killer, I think some swearing is blasphemous, and the list goes on. Do I hate you if you do something which is a sim against the Bible? No. But I will never say that these things are ok just because "I dont want to judge" , if I did that it would be a compromise and one thing the world does not need to see is more Christians make compromises, thats my two cents.
Just yesterday my neighbor got hauled away in a police car for beating his wife, of which his six year old testified to the police officer. The guy drank lots of alcohol which caused him to hurt her. Do I hate the guy? No.(but its a close one) But I do hate violence like that, and I hate what divorce and alcoholism does to families. (Dont get me started on divorce Ill never stop) 
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: NITRO777]
#127304
05/10/07 18:37
05/10/07 18:37
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Netherlands
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I think sex before marriage is profane
I think of it as exercise and preview, because to be honest I'd hate divorce probably as much as you do. 
On the more serious side though, sex should be something special between lovers, so ideally no one-night stands, still nobody's perfect I guess,
Cheers
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#127305
05/10/07 18:40
05/10/07 18:40
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Interesting. It's exactly how some (Dutch) Christians in my neighborhood are behaving. As if it's "cool" to be a Christian. Well, I'm sure it is cool and all, no offense to anyone, but being part of the 'in crowd' shouldn't be the number one goal when it comes to belief. I bet quite a few don't even honestly believe at all, but just want to be part of something.
Unfortunately, in the Netherlands religious people are becoming more fanatical, Christians too, because there are less and less of them, but instead of focusing on things that really matter, it becomes more and more important to let people see that it's cool to be part of the 'in crowd', as if it's a secret society which involves magic and God knows what... it's aimed at convincing people to join so bad they loose sight of the real important things. Lol, and I'm not even a Christian,
Well it is certainly not cool to be a Christian on this forum.
Its a good point Phemox. And one of the coolest things you can do as a man or woman is to take a stand for what you believe in regardless of what your friends, teachers, preachers, spouses or even you parents think, and it is in this theme which I believe is the reason Jesus wrote:
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If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Jesus wasnt telling people that they should immediately go out and hate their mother and father, what he was saying is that if you are not ready to reject other people's beliefs for Jesus' teachings no matter who they are, then you cannot truly follow him.
Its a sober warning that we all need to follow, me included, because it is easy for me also to make choices based upon what other people think, especially people that are close to me. But we cant make choices based on what others may think, we must make choices based upon our own honest core beliefs.
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