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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: NITRO777]
#127346
05/17/07 00:33
05/17/07 00:33
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
Robotronic
Senior Member
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Senior Member
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Munich, Germany
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Whats a tragedy? Do you think all US fundamentalist Christians should die also? Are you also happy like Matt that a Christian leader has died? Is this your form of morality?
You seem to be upset about my comment and now you mix things, that I did not say.
For me it is a tragedy, that mainstream Christians in the US are misled by people like him, because apparently he was preaching racism, division and hatred.
The message of Jesus Christ was very different and I can´ t see, that Mr Falwell was guided by the Holy Spirit in any way.
Maybe one should be silent about this out of respect, but every day dozens, sometimess hundreds of innocent people die in needless wars because of such people who preach hatred and ignorance.
I understand, that you defend him, because he´s from your "team".
But for me this is a matter of principle and therefore it is a tragedy. 
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Robotronic]
#127347
05/17/07 01:49
05/17/07 01:49
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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analysis paralysis
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because apparently he was preaching racism, division and hatred.
Apparent to who? I see division perhaps, but no hatred and racism. You think Christians are racists? There is nothing in what he said that could be interpreted as racism, either that or you dont know what racism is. I think you are misunderstanding his statements. Nobody ever convicted Falwell of racism, no black leaders indicted him. Falwell being a racist was never an issue in America. There no group of liberals who want to say that he was racist for their own political purposes, show me any sort of organized opinion about Falwell's racism and hatred...
As I said before, if you think that his statements are racist, then obviously you think that thousands of Christians are racists because there are many many Christians which agree with those statements.
If he were a racist there would have been books written about it, testimony spread by someone,proof somewhere but there was nothing of the kind.
The man was not a racist, he simply said that homosexuals shouldnt be given minority status because they werent God-ordained minorities, meaning that they werent born gay. Like a black, hispanic or woman is born that way, in that way they are God-ordained, because you cant help what God made you. I assuming this is your alleged racist statement, however it is a gross misinterpretation of the man's words, and to say that he was racist because of it is slanderous.
You might get away with such statements on an internet forum, but in Washington, in American courts, and in the eyes of most Americans, you cant just twist someone's words around and then hope everyone expects that it will be taken as a racist statement.
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On 9/11: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularise America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."
This also is not racist, but has universal import, lesbians, pagans, etc, can be of any race, Falwell was condemning groups that have ruined our society, not based upon their God ordained race, but upon the personal choices gthey have made in their lives.
Let me help you understand what racism is, since you cannot seem to understand it. Racism is hatred directed at another based upon something they are from birth, not based upon the choices they make. You are German right? So if someone hates you just because you are German, THAT is racism, THAT is hatred. You cant help it, you were born that way, and people hate you for that reason alone is not fair.
Now I dont think that hate is good for any reason, even if the people have made moral choices, and I dont think Falwell propagated hatred, and while you can speculate and make false assumptions based upon his words, those are only biased speculation. You are morally wrong to make statements and assumptions about other people without understanding their own intentions.
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that mainstream Christians in the US are misled by people like him,
you dont listen very good do you. I just got finished TWICE saying that he didnt lead Christians, he only represented them. We never needed Falwell to tell us what was right and wrong, Falwell only echoed what we believed. Now either you believe what Im saying is true or your calling me a liar. Falwell propagated not much of anything, he was just a figure head,...a poster boy if you will. He took the blame for fundy Christians in general.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: NITRO777]
#127348
05/17/07 02:32
05/17/07 02:32
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Jerry Falwell just died. Now all we need is James Dobson and Pat Robertson to die
It's a rogue comment at best. 
Well gee, I hate to break the news to ya, but guess what?
YOU ARE GONNA DIE ALSO!  WHAT THEN? 
The defintion of ROGUE is:
Quote:
1. a dishonest, knavish person; scoundrel.
2. a playfully mischievous person; scamp: The youngest boys are little rogues.
3. a tramp or vagabond.
4. a rogue elephant or other animal of similar disposition.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rogue
Hey, but nice talking with you all. lol 
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: NITRO777]
#127350
05/17/07 13:26
05/17/07 13:26
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
Robotronic
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
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Quote:
Falwell being a racist was never an issue in America.
I could imagine, that black people and Hispanics would not like to be described as "God-ordained minorities".
Maybe they would like to be regarded not as some form of divine punishment for the white people, but as EQUAL human beings. And as far as I know this is what defined the struggle of Dr. Martin Luther King.
In the end there is no great difference between racism and religious intolerance, because both forms ultimately have similar goals, and lead to death and misery.
For me there is no moral difference if someone attacks other people because of their religion or because of their race. There are people who would say: "Jews are evil", and if you call them racists, they would say: "oh, how can you say this, no, no of course I´m not a racist, I just don´t apreciate their religion."
This is, why for example the Anti-Defamation League - despite being sympathetic to his pro-Zionism attitude - has condemned remarks of Falwell:
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New York, NY, October 4, 2002 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) strongly condemned Rev. Jerry Falwell’s statement that the Prophet Mohammed “was a terrorist” and called on him to apologize to the followers of Islam.
Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:
The Rev. Jerry Falwell has once again demonstrated his intolerance by his outrageous charge about the Prophet Mohammed. He owes an apology to the millions of good people who follow the Muslim faith. As a man of the cloth, he should be working toward bringing faith communities closer together, not driving wedges through them.
The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.
wikipedia
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As I said before, if you think that his statements are racist, then obviously you think that thousands of Christians are racists because there are many many Christians which agree with those statements.
What is a Christian? Is a Christian in these days someone, who just buys into everything, just because someone - who claims to be a Christian - tells it in a megachurch or on television?!
I´m not a preacher, but for me there is not the shadow of a doubt, that the true Christian message should be a message of truth, love and justice.
And if I have to read things like this ...
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In a radio interview on March 4, 2002, Falwell said of former President Jimmy Carter, "His message of peace and reconciliation under almost all circumstances is simply incompatible with Christian teachings as I interpret them. This 'turn the other cheek' business is all well and good but it's not what Jesus fought and died for. What we need to do is take the battle to the Muslim heathens and do unto them before they do unto us."
wikipedia
... I can only repeat: It is a tragedy, that American Christians follow such divisive and unholy preachers.
Okay, you say: "... he didnt lead Christians. Falwell only echoed what we believed."
I guess you are right here. I think he was a clever guy who did some market research, who found out, that most liberals had said goodbye to Christianity a long time ago. Then he found out, that "This 'turn the other cheek' business" wouldn´t sell very good in a nation, that loves guns and violence. He also realized, that human beings - as Sigmund Freud and human history confirms - just love to hate and kill each other.
Unfortunately that´s not, what serious religion is all about.
The word, religion, is derived from Latin, "religare", meaning "to bind together".
Sure, Mr Falwell has bound white American conservatives by simply telling them, what they liked to hear. But of course he has reinforced such views and there are so many, who run around in the www and repeat his message of hatred.
Unfortunately the truth is sometimes something, that we do not like to hear. There was a reason, why people threw stones at their prophets.
For some people it´s more holy to bash gay´s or muslims, then to make an attempt to understand this:
Matthew 7:12 In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets.
Some people apparently see Christianity just like another worldly group, like a nation or clan, that has to fight other religions and all those, that are not members of this club. So welcome to the unholy crusaders of the 21st century.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Robotronic]
#127351
05/17/07 15:32
05/17/07 15:32
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Coppell, Texas
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Is a Christian in these days someone, who just buys into everything?
Yes, we buy into everything.
Everything that is of TRUTH.
Some others, choose to believe like Neville Chamberlin.
Peace in our time. lol
The ADL sometimes, knows not who the enemy is and is just another political organization. 
Mr Falwell was a truth-teller, and that is something that people despise nowadays.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Ran Man]
#127352
05/17/07 15:42
05/17/07 15:42
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
Yes, we buy into everything.
Everything that is of TRUTH.
You buy into everything that's on TV and is labeled "Christian", it has nothing to do with truth. Take a look at the ridiculous claim about 9/11 and some of his other quotes. That's not truth at all.
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Falwell being a racist was never an issue in America.
So basically what you're saying is that as long as the person in question is a Christian it doesn't matter if he's a racist or not? Excuuuuuse me, but it seems a lot of Christians missed some history lessons then.
When I take a quick random glance at Iran a do a comparison it's no wonder there is still so much hatred in this world. It's actively being fed by both sides really...
Cheers
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#127353
05/17/07 18:30
05/17/07 18:30
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Quote:
Take a look at the ridiculous claim about 9/11 and some of his other quotes. That's not truth at all.
Quote:
On 9/11: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularise America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."
Hmmmn, well he was saying that God was judging us for their actions. I don't know if that is true or not. If I were God, then I would know. 
But, one thing to understand is that right now there is a CULTURE WAR going on over here. Some people are against Christian values over here and some are for them. Some are encouraging christian values for our government and people and some are discouraging these values from happening.
The ACLU, the feminst, the gays, they are all AGAINST biblical values and are trying to change our culture over here. They have organizations of parades, marches and tons of donation money.
Guys like me and Falwell are trying to "REVERSE COURSE" of these actions. He spoke from the pulpit and I make games about God. We, in effect, are very similiar.
Falwell, Robertson and these types are my mentors. They inspire me to make games "for God" and thus try to affect culture as best as possible.
It's a "Culture WAR" man. Who's side is everybody on?
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Ran Man]
#127354
05/17/07 18:52
05/17/07 18:52
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:
They inspire me to make games "for God" and thus try to affect culture as best as possible.
Yes, as I more or less indicated it's pure propaganda. I'm on neither side, because I'm against spreading propaganda like this. In fact, I'm against 'culture wars' for that matter, I guess it's too difficult for some to be neutral instead of part of the in-crowd. If you look at some of the Falwell speeches closely and analyze them, it's also seems to be full of suggestions which in my opinion sometimes comes very close to you know, the usual subliminal crap.
Cheers
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#127355
05/17/07 20:03
05/17/07 20:03
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Coppell, Texas
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What propaganda? It's not CRAP, but since you mention it, there are lots of CROW POOP and FARTS raining down on the players in one of my games race levels. LOL HAHA! <eeoowww, it's crow poop> Maybe you can be neutral, but I CANNOT be. I used to see and talk to real demons. They tormented me. How can I be neutral?  It's not possible to be neutral. Some people have different experiences. Maybe Falwell had some too? The ongoing culture war IS spirital. Falwell knew it is true and spiritual and God knows it's true too. Do you see the islamic culture growing, due to it's continued intimidation of the masses? That IS a spiritual event. Make no mistake and listen --> THE DEVIL IS AN INTIMIDATOR! And I know from firsthand experience! I know them and what they love to do! THEY - INTIMIDATE YOU!!! <They love this as entertainment> Do you see the christian culture getting smashed so hard now? That IS also a spiritual event. Everybody needs to do their part to affect culture. What are you guys doing? Are you guys making games for God or just being neutral? No offense, but being neutral is a big fat zero in heaven. It's a big goose-egg up there, because neutral is neutral and helps nobody down here. Neutral means nothing in God's book of life. Oh well, back to work.
Last edited by Ran Man; 05/17/07 20:07.
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