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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Ran Man]
#127356
05/17/07 20:19
05/17/07 20:19
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Posts: 8,177
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Aaah, the good old scare-tactics campaign... you sure do sound intimidating to me btw .. lol   Somehow I can't take the talk to demons thing seriously, although I'm sure you've had those problems. Neutrality is probably better than choosing to support either side actively, heaven or no heaven, God or no God, I couldn't care less actually since it's irrelevant in this world, off course mostly because I do not think such a place can even exist where-ever it may be, Quote:
Do you see the christian culture getting smashed so hard now? That IS also a spiritual event.
I guess you believe Armageddon is at hand, right? Come on, it's not a spiritual event at all, it's pure logic in action. People more and more get access to information about things they would otherwise have explained with supernatural causes. Only the very stubborn or caught in their own beliefs will keep holding on to their faith no matter what. It's because those people will get into a mental crisis otherwise. Like you've said ran_man, either believe or it's back to the demons.. no pun intended
Cheers
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#127357
05/17/07 21:59
05/17/07 21:59
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate
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Bay City, MI
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ran man, were in the bible does it say to kill all the ones who are disbelievers? so why is it that you treat other religions like [censored]?, were, as far as the femenist movement, that whole thing is not wrong by the bibles standards at all, the language at the time of the king james called for "man" to be used for the word humanity, just like the 10 commandments says, children respect your parents and you shall have longevity, it also says fathers do not exasperate your children, it is the same way with wives and husbands, it says for wives to respect there husbands but it also says for husbands to be respectful to there wives. The way people like you make it, women should basically be slaves, what seperates you from the people in the muslim culture than?
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Ran Man]
#127358
05/17/07 22:03
05/17/07 22:03
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
No offense, but being neutral is a big fat zero in heaven. It's a big goose-egg up there, because neutral is neutral and helps nobody down here. Neutral means nothing in God's book of life.
There is also no_such_thing_as_neutral. Its all or nothing for me. Thats who I am.
Quote:
I'm pretty most people with a brain felt a certain jolt of happiness when hearing this news
But most people with a heart cared when they heard the news. And you haven't convinced me that you are so much smarter than me or any other Christian around here anyways.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Ran Man]
#127359
05/17/07 22:19
05/17/07 22:19
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 414
Munich, Germany
Robotronic
Senior Member
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Munich, Germany
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Quote:
Who's side is everybody on?
I like your last post.
My 1st answer is a little worldly puzzle  :
On the stock market, there are two groups of people, the "bulls" and the "bears".
The bulls are deeply convinced, that the stock market will rise and buy stocks.
The bears know very well, that the stock market will fall and sell stocks.
But then there´s a 3rd group. But it´s not so easy to describe them.
They try to know as much as possible. About the history of the stock market, about the psychology ...
Sometimes they sell stocks, sometimes they buy.
 Which group is most likely to make a lot of money?
My 2nd answer:
I´m on the side of God. But is God also on my side? Can I be sure about this?
Sigmund Freud, who was not a stupid fool like me, was opposed to religion:
Quote:
Freud describes religion as an illusion, wishes that are the "fulfillments of the oldest, strongest, and most urgent wishes of mankind" (Ch. 6 pg. 30). To differentiate between an illusion and an error, he lists scientific beliefs such as "Aristotle's belief that vermin are developed out of dung" as errors, but "the assertion made by certain nationalists that the Indo-Germanic race is the only one capable of civilization" is an illusion, simply because of the wishing involved. Put forth more explicitly, "what is characteristic of illusions is that they are derived from human wishes."
The Future of an Illusion
The problem is: I agree with him. That´s what religion really means for most people, but for me: the opposite.
I found God, when a certain number of more or less complex puzzles were solved, just as much as to give me an original initial idea, that behind all the worldly stuff, there is something like a second spiritual track. The strange thing about this: one can find God by being sceptical, by being ambivalent.
About the truth, the law, the prophets, who´s right, who´s wrong - you need to find the Holy Spirit, but take care and be reasonable, because:
12:31 For this reason I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
That´s from the gospel of Matthew.
In the gospel of John this spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth. And truth means truth, not my truth vs your truth. It means the absolute truth, which is difficult to find.
If you are in doubt: there is only one God and he wants us all to be spiritually united ...
From time to time he sends his prophets.
The last big revelation was maybe in the 19th century. The message of Bahá´ulláh (the founder of the Baha´i) comes very close to what I consider to be absolute (for the moment) and it is just a logical extension of the teachings of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed ...
But it´s no problem if we don´t listen to His messengers, that´s normal, people never listened to the true prophets.
There´s nevertheless progress but with these ugly interruptions, that are called "crash" on the stock market and "war" or "revolution" in human history.
We can also learn from mistake. That´s what people usually prefer, because, who would believe a prophet these days.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Robotronic]
#127360
05/17/07 22:50
05/17/07 22:50
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Quote:
Somehow I can't take the talk to demons thing seriously, although I'm sure you've had those problems.
At first, I assumed I was hallucinating, so I started TESTING them and found that others around me were seeing and hearing the same things, so they were real. 
Quote:
Neutrality is probably better than choosing to support either side actively, heaven or no heaven, God or no God, I couldn't care less actually since it's irrelevant in this world,
No, neutral is dangerous, because most people down here are listening to the bad ones right now. They are listening to the GOD OF THIS WORLD.
Quote:
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
So, don't follow what everyone else is doing and be neutral, because then you are BLIND, and are following another god.
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ran man, were in the bible does it say to kill all the ones who are disbelievers? so why is it that you treat other religions like [censored]?, were, as far as the femenist movement, that whole thing is not wrong by the bibles standards at all
Who says to KILL them? Personally, I tolerate all religions, but the bible does not. If they are going to hell, then we have to tell them, but personally, I hold no bad feelings towards anyone. God does what He wants to, don't blame me. Whatever He does in the afterlife is good.
Btw, the feminist are "feminizing" our culture. We need to get away from that.
Quote:
Freud describes religion as an illusion, wishes that are the "fulfillments of the oldest, strongest, and most urgent wishes of mankind
is an illusion, simply because of the wishing involved.
Hey, Wait a minute!
GOD is not a product of your thoughts or illusions or anybody elses.
God is His own person with ideas and personality.
To base the idea of GOD on a illusion of a human, really demotes God to a very small entity. lol 
HE IS THE ALMIGHTY PEOPLE! AND WE MUST FOLLOW HIM!
WOO, HA, HA!
Btw, sorry Kinji and Nitro...
take over brothers. lol
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Ran Man]
#127361
05/17/07 23:05
05/17/07 23:05
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
Btw, sorry Kinji and Nitro...
take over brothers. lol
Heh heh. No don't be sorry, you are doing a great job! I like what you say! And I agree. Im just not jumping very heavily in because I think they have enough of my opinion to think about for now. Plus Im busy working on a model.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: Ran Man]
#127362
05/17/07 23:35
05/17/07 23:35
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
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Quote:
There is also no_such_thing_as_neutral.
As a relativist I believe there is, but apparently not in your book so to say, that's okey. In this case I would say 'neutral' is the side that either benefits from both sides or doesn't get 'involved' with either side's view. And yes, that's as contradicting as it sounded.
I'm not sure if I'm still all that neutral by the way, because I'm starting to dislike religion more and more, the more I get to know about it, especially the more popular organized religions.
I think some spiritual aspects of religion in general are good and I like certain Asian things like yoga, but there are definitely some things which I will never believe, simply because they are not or can not be true... once something's integrity is compromised, what real value will be left?
I don't trust what can't be trusted.
Quote:
At first, I assumed I was hallucinating, so I started TESTING them and found that others around me were seeing and hearing the same things, so they were real.;)
Real demons, with teeth and horns? 
Cheers
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#127363
05/18/07 00:32
05/18/07 00:32
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,682
Coppell, Texas
Ran Man
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Quote:
simply because they are not or can not be true...
Why? If God made the earth, then why can He not do certain things? There are no limits buddy.
Quote:
Real demons, with teeth and horns?
At the end, I did see one of them in their REAL form and face to face. I was scared stiff at that moment, but called to Jesus and that was the end of it. I know what they look like. The Koran is accurate on this matter too.
I have not seen anything since then and that was 1982.
Previously though, I did see them in different forms. I seen them in the form of SHADOWS, A DEAD PERSON, and A WHITE MOVING ROTATING BALL. So, they can be whatever they wanna be actually or whatever their subjects are expecting I figure. 
Abominable snowmen, big foot, flying saucers, aliens from mars, dead people, or whatever. It's all true man. But, they need Gods permissions to appear and do stuff and that's not automatic.
They can go INSIDE humans and take over their vocals and make them do stupid stuff, yeah I seen that too.
They'be been here screwing around with us humans for centuries. They are very entertained by our stupidy.
When you get an idea, for example, do you think it really was from YOU? Maybe, but who knows man? 
Have you ever seen a dumb animal and get entertained and made fun of it? HA HA HA! Stupid kitty, we might say. yeah, go ahead and laugh.
It's just the same thing. Only we are their subjects. We are the entertainers and the show in the great colliseum of EARTH.
WOO, HA, HA! I think I will dance and make them laugh now. lol
Quote:
certain Asian things like yoga
Oh, but why Yoga?
If there is NO ALMIGHTY in it, then it's bad.
You are just calling on powers that are around and end up getting the bad ones. That IS dangerous indeed.
They are all over. In your homes, offices, all over.
There is no escape. You will follow one or the other. There is no escape from it.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#127364
05/18/07 00:52
05/18/07 00:52
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,010
analysis paralysis
NITRO777
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Quote:
As a relativist I believe there is, but apparently not in your book so to say, that's okey.
Well in the statement above I was just talking about for me personally there is no such thing as neutral, I just am an all or nothing type of guy.
But for an example you already dont believe in Christianity, that kind of makes you un-neutral on the issue. I know that you admit the possibility of a God if one could be proved, yet Christianity does not need the proof, so therefore you are against Christian belief. Does that make sense?
In other words in your "waiting for evidence" you are already un-neutral with regards to the literal Christian faith because the Christian faith does not wait for evidence. If you cant understand that, I dont know if I personally will be able to get it through to you.
I have an idea for you, and for others who seem a little agnostic or materialistic. Why dont you try to take inventory on what you DO know.
1)You dont know if God exists(though you believe the evidence is against it)
2)You dont know if Christianity is correct(though you do know that you are disliking it)
What DO you know? And by "know", I am talking about what you "know" as an absolute, beyond any shadow of a doubt.
1) You know that you exist.
2) You know that I exist.
OK. Now we are getting somewhere, we have found a common ground to agree upon. What else do we both know?
1)We know that I am a Christian.
What useful knowledge is this? This is useful knowledge because it lets you forget about history, about religion, about Christianity, about Jerry Falwell, about America or about George Bush.
Now it is only me. I believe all of those horrible Christian ideals, yet I dont hate you, I dont want you to go to hell, I dont hate you because you are from the Netherlands, Im not a racist, I dont want to take your oil or your land or your freedom, I dont want to wage war on you.
So what does this exersize do? It humanizes these dynamic political and religious forces around you. It makes them smaller. It makes the problems more real. Why? Because all of this stuff, all of these topics, and all of these debates boil to down to nothing but you and the people you are surrounded by at that moment. Not all the peoples of earth throughout history, but only you and those that are with you at the moment,.. right now.
So thats what you have to ask yourself, if you hate Christianity, you hate me. Dont look at what you hear about the world. You should only look at what YOU KNOW, because everything else...just about everything else is based upon opinion and most opinion has two sides to it, and a lot of lies. A LOT of lies, but the truth only exists in what you know, and what you know as an absolute.
So I wouldnt get frustrated with religion, and I wouldnt hope people die, or wish that religion was gone. All of those forces are beyond our control, we can only affect our little world.
As children Christians are taught to "let their light shine" in a dark world. And it is true for adults also. If Christianity has disillusioned you you must take it up with me, and take it up with the Christians you know and it is our job to represent it correctly. A job which most of us take very seriously.
I am Christianity to you the same way that you represent your beliefs to me. I judge your beliefs based upon you, right now, and that is all I can do because we all are the products of our beliefs.
Quote:
Real demons, with teeth and horns?
Its not any harder to believe than an invisible God.
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Re: Christian Life, are you saved?
[Re: NITRO777]
#127365
05/18/07 02:26
05/18/07 02:26
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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I don't hate Christianity, I simply dislike organized religion, there's a subtle difference. Anyways, I understand your point since you're part of something I dislike. Quote:
A LOT of lies, but the truth only exists in what you know, and what you know as an absolute.
I agree, there's an abundance of lies everywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV4MV86fmxA&NR=1
and another one. Slightly different, but similar in a way;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knKUT586nQ&mode=related&search=
Don't you think the fact that they use the bible and your Christianity to justify their ways is despicable at least?
Anyways, I don't think there's such a thing as 'absolute', eventhough some/many might argue that's simply my opinion, there are good arguments to assume everything is relative, since knowledge is relative.
Quote:
Its not any harder to believe than an invisible God.
This was the answer I was expecting actually, but off course this is one of the main reasons why I do not believe at all. Aliens , vampires, UFOs are fiction (or natural phenomena), real demons with teeth and horns are fiction too, God is also just fiction. If God would be real and exist it would actually matter to pray to him, his actions or interference in this world would be visible to us and and and ... basically whether or not he exists as far as the current state of the world totally doesn't matter, if he exists he is not active or we can't see he's active.
When it comes to 'stick to what you know';
Something that is invisible, can not be communicated with or otherwise interacted with and has absolutely no visible influence on this world whatsoever simply doesn't exist, and even if it would really exist it would be completely irrelevant.
Really, what's the point of believing in such a thing (invisible, 'does' nothing, might as well be nonexistent). There's no reason to assume he does exist, just wishful thinking, there's also no reason to assume heaven or all those things are real and there's no evidence that supports any of the other religious claims.
Cheers
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