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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: JetpackMonkey]
#135407
06/14/07 09:08
06/14/07 09:08
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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i personally like the idea of giving the player an introduction to the story, and let them loose to react to it how they want. a good story doesn't have to make the game linear. the player can find out what they want, when they want, and complete the "ultimate objective" however they want. when that objective is complete, reveal a couple of important details to the plot that the player may have missed, and the player may be enticed to play through the game again in a different way in order to find these story-elements for themselves or react to these elements if they hadn't seen them the first time round.
of course, you can't go too far without scripted events, but they can still be open to lots of choice with the player, and the player might never even see them. i don't mean "side-quests" where they player will always do "19-out-of-20" main missions and however many side missions they want. instead, (for example) "there are 60 possible missions/objectives you can do here and you need the rewards from at least [don't stop the player from doing more] 8 of them to continue/unlock-more-freedom".
this obviously depends on the type of game. i like the idea of sandbox-style games with strong story involvement (tends to be an oxymoron), but certain games with strong on-the-fly story telling elements can't do this and need to be more like HL2 or KOTOR (which, as an unrelated sidenote, i hate -- KOTOR, not HL2).
sorry, i haven't read the other posts yet. i will soon.
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: Inestical]
#135410
06/14/07 22:34
06/14/07 22:34
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,208 Germany
Error014
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Well, dunno, I'd do it in the way that I and players will enjoy it, since new stuff isn't always the best selection.
But for everyone who knows this way of telling stories, your game might end up being predictable. Of course, one might not always know WHAT will happen (hopefully!), but in most games, you already have a pretty good idea that the story won't be advanced on the way to the town, but rather after you defeated the boss on the dungeon that - what a coincidence! - everyone seems to talk about. "Hey, although we are the villagers of X, we all just now decided to tell you more about the mysterious crystal of village Y, which is a thousand miles away and that nobody ever saw, but its awesome! You want to visit it?"
You see what I mean? The advantage is that we know that this kind of plot advancement works. The disadvantage is: So do most gamers. Surprise them! Mix things up! What if the story DOES advance on the way to the village? The player didn't expect that? Well, you win then! 
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But the ultimate ending result normally has to remain the same, UNLESS you want alternate endings.
Well... yes. If the ultimate ending result was different, so were the endings, which means that one has several, alternate endings. So in a nutshell, you basically just said "Either you have one ending or more than that" 
I know what you're after, though. It's true that what happens at the end should lie in the hands of the player. And it should certainly feel that way! But the NPCs should still seem to affect the outcome. For example, when the player traverses the Dungeon X, he might get rescued by NPC Y, who tells them that NPC Z leds the army to defeat another evil guy. Something along these lines. I'm not the only one in the world that would bother with rescuing it! In the "normal" RPG, I of course want to be the hero, so make sure to give me the most important role! Still, why rescue a world that nobody - especially its inhabitants - is interested in? The world is coming to an end! "Oh boy", says the guy in the village, "I'll still go around here and say the same stupid sentence that I said in the WHOLE GAME, which is to tell the player that the soup here is a special offer."
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I'll spoil up something. In the game I'm currently designing (storylines, characters, fine-tuning world, quests, humour, weapons....) the main pair are from the both sides of the war. It can be "clear" in the beginning who is the bad guy.. but.. I also give the motives, good sides and positives of the bad guy (the other main character is/was his supporter anyways). Same for the other side. In the end the player has to choose which side to go on with.
Sounds good. A clear black/white situation is rare in the real world. Usually, each side has a reason to what they do and its not a completely egoistical one at that! In games, the evil guy so often just fights for himself. So how in the world did he manage to gain a complete army for that purpose? Why would anyone join him?! Thats nonsense! Make sure there is a understandable reason. Its great if you add some personality to the character, and that might even be his ultimate motive. But make sure that the rest around him still makes sense. In the loose meaning of "magic-exists-and-is-the-power-of-everything" 
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Finally, ever seen a game with perfect story, I mean, that you always knew what was happening and got swallowed up in the universe of <insert game name here>?
A perfect story? Can such a thing even exists?  Even though they are not perfect, there is a reason that I mention the PhoenixWright- and HotelDusk-game(s) in about every single post I make. Although there are some (slight) logical issues in many great stories (probably even in Grim Fandango & Co), these are always small things that doesn't change much. In a way, stories in computergames are already "outstanding" if they manage to evoke emotions in you. Although many books and many movies manage that, many games try but fail. It's always an awkward and embarassing situation if the death of some character is displayed many minutes long, but you just don't really care because you were introduced to him about thirty seconds ago and know nothing about him. As cruel as that sounds, you can't feel that sad for someone you don't really know (especially given that he/she doesn't exist).
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a good story doesn't have to make the game linear. the player can find out what they want, when they want, and complete the "ultimate objective" however they want.
Sure, thats possible. But the more freedom you give to the player, the more you are limited with the story you tell. As good as it may sound on paper and as much replayvalue it might create, I fear that it might just end up being frustrating if the player manages to defeat whatever evil awaited him, only to find out that whatever happens doesn't seem to impact anything. Oh, you didn't know that this woman protects the land? Well, then try to understand that ending, because we sure won't tell you! Of course that example is oversimplified, but I hope you can still see my point. It is a good idea (and leads back to the question: Are we able to do that?), but its certainly a tricky one to balance and to get right. Of course, it also depends on the length of the story and the amount of turns it has  And if you make the whole thing interesting enough so you can be certain that the player WILL try to find out how the world works, then it's a great thing to have. All I'm saying is that its tricky.
I'm all for not telling the player everything at first and to leave some things for him to find out on his own. The question is: How to make sure that he actually WILL? I don't want to write my story for nothing! 
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the game has to give him a REAL reason to do this. This has o be done with giving story and the story has to justify everything that's done in the game.
Exactly. The player needs a motive and an ultimate goal (that may change during the game!) to play for. Maybe it's just uncovering whatever awaits him, maybe it's finding a certain character, maybe it's just killing the evil guy at the end (please not). But it might be interesting to NOT reveal the ultimate objective. It can work if you just tell the player "Work through this dungeon and kill the boss" without him knowing why. As much as it may cross moral borders, if it can get the players attention, its a good thing (as long as you can explain it at some point ). When the player wonders "Why am I DOING this?! How can I?", then its good, because you made him think or bad, because he stopped playing  I thought Shadow of the Colossus did that. One doesn't know the WHY at the beginning, right?
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Either let the audience know more than a main character knows, or let them know less than the character knows. This way, you never have the audience and main character know the same things at the same time, and it creates suspense.
Great tip. Also good find on Schafers speech (I assume its his, I haven't listened to this yet, but it would surprise me if it was anything else ), I heard it a while ago and this is why I'm all for backstories 
At first, the tip sounds pretty strange: The player should identify with his character, so one should try to make the differences as little as possible. But if you do it the way the tip suggests, you add differences on purpose. This gives the player a little distance, but it doesn't have to kill the connection between player and character. It makes characterisation much easier and can even give the player a new motive for playing ("Why is this character so weird? Why doesn't he want to talk about this?" or "I know I shouldn't go in there, but the character simply HAS to"). And yes, I'm doing that in my game. Actually, I'm already looking forward to any feedback you guys might give me! 
Perhaps this post will get me points for originality at least.
Check out Dungeon Deities! It's amazing and will make you happy, successful and almost certainly more attractive! It might be true!
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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: Error014]
#135411
06/15/07 06:07
06/15/07 06:07
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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a good story doesn't have to make the game linear. the player can find out what they want, when they want, and complete the "ultimate objective" however they want.
Sure, thats possible. But the more freedom you give to the player, the more you are limited with the story you tell. As good as it may sound on paper and as much replayvalue it might create, I fear that it might just end up being frustrating if the player manages to defeat whatever evil awaited him, only to find out that whatever happens doesn't seem to impact anything.
absolutely, it has very limited application. a good storyteller won't want to use this because they'd have twists and turns for the player. i'm thinking more of a "short-story" storyline. it's different, it doesn't have many subplots, and it will be seen the first time round as an excuse to do some killing...
as you may have guessed, i do have a story in mind. when i finish my design & technology major work (in a couple of months) i'll use that story so i'm not going to say what happens. it's basically inspired by the "Bad Guy wins...?" thread.
you're right that this is not very generally applicable, but i think in games where the story is quite important, and with multiple objectives, self-preservation shouldn't be so hard. this is a generalization -- a horror game would be ridiculously hard to make scary if the player wasn't vulnerable. however, in a story-focussed game, objectives would be more important if self-preservation was easy and objective accomplishment wasn't. many objectives in games wait for the player so they can take their time trying not to die. others have time-limits and then give the player a fail if they don't accomplish the objective within that time-limit. this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but this tends to reduce the story's momentum. i'm sure many more players would be interested in stories and sub-plots if they had to fight for it, and not for their lives -- let the story's current encourage them in different directions and towards different choices without making them stop and look precariously around each and every corner (though, this is suitable for some games).
it'll work in my game, i'm sure.
but we'll see.
^^ just my specific example
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: JibbSmart]
#135412
06/15/07 22:35
06/15/07 22:35
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,208 Germany
Error014
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i'm thinking more of a "short-story" storyline. it's different, it doesn't have many subplots, and it will be seen the first time round as an excuse to do some killing...
Ah, yes, that could work pretty well. Gives it plenty of replayvalue, too. Sorry, I was still with the long RPG-games and their storylines, were it would be infinitely harder to make it work. But if its short enough, it could feel really interesting. Wasn't there a TV-show or game that used that approach? Man, my memory is fuzzy lately! Speaking of which, where am I? And who ARE you guys? What am I doing here?!
By the way: Amnesia is also a theme that is used in about EVERY SINGLE GAME out there. It's a cheap excuse to avoid writing backstories. Of course you can build suspense with it and due to that, its possible to use that very, very well. 
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as you may have guessed, i do have a story in mind.
The funny thing is, probably everyone who posted here has his or her special story in mind. Just by looking at what points were stressed or defended by these persons, you can see if their story works like the point mentioned or not. It's all quite subliminal and nobody will ever be able to tell their story through this, but it might be fun to come back to this when we all know how our stories worked. Or maybe this theory is completely stupid - thats what happens when you write posts when you're tired. Oh so tired.
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but i think in games where the story is quite important, and with multiple objectives, self-preservation shouldn't be so hard.
I definately agree here! Sure I want to play a game, but I also want to know what happens. But if I can never find out because I'm always killed by that dragon, I'll just get frustrated and quit. If the game is mainly about overcoming such challenges, then that might be okay, but if I play because I care about the characters, then my motivation might be lost after a couple of tries. And I'm more of a "hardcore"-gamer (not in the way of "I beat you all", but I'm definately not part of the "casual"-audience, which seems to be the next one). (We all know these superhard games that you just continue playing because you want to BEAT THEM AND WANT TO SEE THEM LOSE. On a somewhat related sidenote, when I finally - FINALLY - finished F-Zero on Gamecube, I was so mad at the game and mad at me that I actually played it. The story is so dumb and the whole game is just an insult to you. And what did I get for all this? I'm allowed to BUY a new car. Yes, thats right, I didn't get it, I was only allowed to BUY it. And then it was just a bad one at that! Whats with that?! Oh, you want all the other cool characters? Well, try again beating the whole game on the next difficultysetting. No, you won't get them then, you will just get ANOTHER difficultysetting and if you beat THAT, THEN we might talk. Argh, I get angry. Time to answer something in the Starting with gamestudio-forum )
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this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but this tends to reduce the story's momentum.
It's also often hard to incorporate into the story. Oh, hey, you know what? Due to your last fight, which was exactly the same than any other, this building will EXPLODE. In, like, ten minutes or so. RUN!!1 But when games really manage to make it clear as to WHY that happens RIGHT NOW (and its more then just mere coincidence), then it can be pretty good.
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i'm sure many more players would be interested in stories and sub-plots if they had to fight for it, and not for their lives
Well, this is often done because it's easy to fit into the current gamemechanics. We have that amazing battlesystem here, so why don't we use it? So the objcetive will likely be a fight of some sort. Horray, thank you. But it might also be cool to offer a little variety. Maybe I could also talk to the king instead of fighting with him? By only casually selecting the right answers (maybe at the right time?), I could convince him.
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it'll work in my game, i'm sure.
Hah, don't make us curious or tell us more 
Now, bear with me...
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Listen to this!!
I just did that again (yay, I was right, it was Tim Schafers speech!), and somewhere in there, he mentions some kind of friendstersite for his characters. That is quite a cool idea, I thought, and after a little searching, I landed on a myspacesite of someone who obviously doesn't care much about his privacy. This however means an instant win for me!
Look at the list of questions that myspaces (might) ask you. Now, imagine your (main)character signed up for this and had to answer all these questions. Are you able to do that?
At first, there are "general" informations.
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FULL name Age Gender Location (Country, City)
So far, it's straightforward. Aside from the location, maybe (huh, location? Uh, City! With a gun!). And maybe not everyone knows the exact age, but that one isn't so hard to decide. It becomes more itneresting when we look at "interests":
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"General" (an overview) Music Movies Films TV-Shows Books Favorite Heroes (from Shows, etc.)
All these are interesting because they show us the character of your - uh - character. What kind of guy is he? Although one doesn't have to answer it with favorite music or movies (this might not fit for every universe), we should ask ourselves "even if he doesn't know it, which band might he like?". It forces us to think more about the character and how he might be like after all he went through.
Now, let's have a look at the "Details":
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Status (Relationship?) [Reason for using Myspace] Size (Oh, how tall is he, anyway?) Weight [Religion] Children Pets Education Income
Now, I'm not so sure about all of these. Certain things just scream for trouble and others just don't fit that much for gamecharacters. I also left some out here.
Now, the next one is why I'm so happy I found the site of this person. It's a giant superbig interview and it's crazy. According to him, it seems to be from "BZOINK.COM", but I didn't bother visiting that site, so I won't guarantee for anything. How many questions can your character answer? I've deleted some of the questions, though (because they were already asked, for example )
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Nicknames?: Date of birth? Sex? Height? Eye color? Where were you born? Number of candles on your last birthday cake? Pets? Hair color? Piercings? [Isn't it fun how early this question popped up?] Town you live in? Favorite foods? Ever been to Africa? Been toilet papering? Love someone so much it made you cry? Been in a car accident? Croutons or bacon bits? Favorite day of the week? Favorite resturant? Favorite flower? Favorite sport to watch? Favorite drink? Favorite ice cream flavor? Warner Bros. or Disney? Favorite fast food restuarant? Carpet color in your bedroom? How many times did you fail your driver's test? Whom did you get your last email from? Which store would you choose to max out your credit card? What do you do most often when you are bored? Most annoying thing to say to me? Bedtime? Favorite TV show? Last person you went out to dinner with? Been out of country? Believe in magick? Ford or Chevy? What are you listening to right now? Have you ever failed a grade? If you have, what grade did you fail? Do you have a crush on someone? Do you have a bf/gf? If so, what is their name? How long have you been together? What are you wearing right now? Would you have sex before marriage? Have you ever had a crush on any of your teachers? Do you smoke? Do you drink? Are you ghetto? Are you a player? What are your favorite colors? What is your favorite animal? Do you have any birthmarks? Have you ever gotten your ass kicked? Who do you talk to most on the phone? Have you ever been slapped? Do you get online a lot? Are you shy or outgoing? Do you shower? Do you hate school? Do you have a social life? How easily do you trust people? Do you have a secret people would be surprised knowing? Would you ever sky dive? Do you like to dance? Have you ever been out of state? Do you like to travel? Have you ever been expelled from school? Have you ever been suspended from school? Do you want to get out of your hometown? Are you spoiled? Are you a brat? Have you ever been dumped? Have you ever gotten high? Do you drink a lot of water? What toothpaste do you use? Do you have a cell phone? Do you have a curfew? Who do you look up to? Are you a role model? Have you ever been to Six Flags or Cedar Point? What name brand do you wear the most? What kind of jewelry do you wear? What do you want pierced? Do you like takin pictures? Do you like gettin your picture taken? Do you have a tan? Do you get annoyed easily? Have you ever started a rumor? Do you have your own phone or phone line? Do you have your own pool? Do you prefer boxers or briefs? Do you have any siblings? Have you ever been played? Have you ever played anyone? Do you get along with your parents? How do you vent your anger? Have you ever ran away? Have you ever been fired from a job? Do you even have a job? Do you daydream a lot? Do you have a lot of ex's? What do you want a tattoo of? What do you have a tattoo of? What does your ex bf/gf look like? What does your most recent crush look like? Whats her/his name? Are you rude? What was the last compliment you recieved? Do you like getting dirty? Are you flexiable? What is your heritage? What is your lucky number? What does your hair look like right now? Could you ever be a vegetarian? Describe your looks? If you had to completely dye your hair it'd be what color? Would you ever date someone younger than you? Would you ever date someone older than you? When was the last time you were drunk? How many rings until you answer the phone? When was the last time you went on a date? Do you look more like your mother or father? Do you cry a lot? Do you ever cry to get your way? What phrase do you use most when on the phone? Are you the romantic type? Have you ever been chased by cops? [What is the audience of this test?] What do you like most about your body? What do you like least about your body? When did you have your first crush? When was the last time you threw up? [I'm not so sure if that one is so important for our purpose... or any other purpose, really] In the opposite sex, do you prefer blondes or brunettes? What theme does your room have? How are you feeling right now? When was the last time you were at a party? Has there ever been a rumor spread about you? What is one of your bad qualilties? What is one of your good qualilties? Would you marry for money? What do you drive? Are you more of a mommys or daddys child? When was the last time you cried in school? What kind of music do you like? Would you ever bungee jump? What is your worst fear? Would you ever join the army? Do you like cows? If you were to die today, what would you do? If you had one last word to say to someone before you die, what would it b? Do you like to party? Favorite scent? Favorite band? Would you ever dye your hair red? How many languages can you speak?
Okay, after reading the answer from that guy, I'm feeling that I know more about him then I really, REALLY should. I guess I now know more about him then about me. Wow.
Okay, so, not all of these questions are important, sure. But it wouldn't hurt if you were able to answer most of these questions for your most important characters.
Is there any interest in some kind of "character workshop"? Present your character and get feedback and ideas from other users?
Perhaps this post will get me points for originality at least.
Check out Dungeon Deities! It's amazing and will make you happy, successful and almost certainly more attractive! It might be true!
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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: Error014]
#135413
06/15/07 23:49
06/15/07 23:49
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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that myspace idea is really interesting  i think that's a really good comparison! it sets a good standard. more of a bare-minimum -- a good character-driven story should be somewhere between that and the huge questionnaire you posted  Quote:
The funny thing is, probably everyone who posted here has his or her special story in mind.
haha, i didn't notice that, but you're probably right. the biggest reason for someone to look in this thread would be to find inspiration/compare theories so that their own story can be good 
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i'm sure many more players would be interested in stories and sub-plots if they had to fight for it, and not for their lives
Well, this is often done because it's easy to fit into the current gamemechanics. We have that amazing battlesystem here, so why don't we use it? So the objcetive will likely be a fight of some sort. Horray, thank you. But it might also be cool to offer a little variety.
i meant fight in a more metaphorical sense what i really should've said is that for a story-focussed game, the player should be in a position where they're enticed to put the majority of their effort into finding out about the story, not trying to survive the next samey ordeal.
of course, it's not a good action game if its too easy to live, and stupid or really cocky players should be punished accordingly. in the end it can be a really fine balance. don't get me started on learning curves in adventure games though... not that i have a problem with them, but in a non-action game it gets particularly hard to have a changing learning curve. often in adventure games, "puzzles" can take ages for one person and be trivial for another, and then be the other way round later on.
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Is there any interest in some kind of "character workshop"? Present your character and get feedback and ideas from other users?
i'm interested! i don't have anything for it at the moment, but i think it would be really interesting and a huge encouragement for as GS users to have more interesting games. graphics tend not to be the strong point for indie developers (not always though), so we could use all the help in the "down-to-earth" parts of gameplay and character development we can get 
julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: Error014]
#135414
06/16/07 07:44
06/16/07 07:44
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,206 Innsbruck, Austria
sPlKe
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Posts: 4,206
Innsbruck, Austria
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a few tipps to tell a good story:
invest time in psychology, to learn how humans think, feel and react. the key to a good story is, play with the feelings of your gamer/viewer/reader.
depending on what you want to achieve, you have to use your ideas.
also, take care that your story is, like everything you do, DAU (DUMBEST AVAILABLE USER, Luser)compatible. if the DAU doesnt get it, you lost...
on the other hand, you have to make sure that the lengh of the story is correct. if the story is too long, you may hev to cut it, and if you cut it, the DAU might not get it anymore. great example for that is spider-man 3. the story was so big, that they basically cut 30-40 minutes from the movie. you can see the result for yourself...
pacing is also extremely important. best example for bad pacing would be eragon. but eragon is a great negative example for so many things...
those were a few basics for any storyteller. if you knew them, you can investigate further. investigate how people react to certain words, colours or thoughts. investigate in a GOOD movie, when happens what and why? oh and BTW, horror and slasher movies are ALL bad... WITH NO EXCEPTION. just to inform you...
good examples for great storytelling: Lord of the Rings (The Movies, the books itself actually are extremely poorly written) The Prestige (Once again, the movie is better, because the book is just a straight forward story with the conclusion way too early) I, Robot
A few examples for bad storytelling: Star Wars Episode 3 (The first half is too slow, and the second half to fast. very abd pacing) Pirates of the caribbean (all of them. the first one is too unbalanced, the second one has no ending obviously, and the third one is too confusing. and while i think the third one is the best, and probably oen of the best movies ever made, its not DAU compatible and thus, it lost)
hope that helps
Last edited by SPlKE; 06/16/07 09:42.
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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: JibbSmart]
#135415
06/16/07 20:55
06/16/07 20:55
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264 Wellington
Nems

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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
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Quote:
the player should be in a position where they're enticed to put the majority of their effort into finding out about the story, not trying to survive the next samey ordeal.
great idea as it lead me to think about the player and cocky users getting hammered by falling debri, holes, animal attacks and so on whilst in a time frame to explore and discover.
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Re: How to tell your story
[Re: Nems]
#135416
06/18/07 21:15
06/18/07 21:15
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 523 Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Paul_L_Ming
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Posts: 523
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
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Hiya. I didn't read through ALL of these, so someone may have touched on it. Here's my 2¢... - A story should have an effect in how the player plays the game.
-- Simply relating a story only serves to tell the player "Here's what's going on and why you are hear", and to give the player a general sense of the genre (type of fantasy world, level of alien technology, etc.). If the story mentiones how powerful and rare magic items are...you had better make them rare and powerful. They shouldn't be popping up like candies from a PEZ dispenser the moment the player starts the game.
- A story should never be written with any 'modern day' slang or coloquisms...unless it is in the form of actual character dialog. I suppose if you are trying to make a 'comedy' game and this kind of talk is humorous you could get away with it. Maybe.
-- Nothing screams "I'm a boob" more than writing "The world was dead. Totally destroyed. Like, not even some low-down bii-atch with madd skillz could live".
- A story shouldn't assume the player has the same experiences as the writer.
-- The writers job is to convey his ideas/thoughts so that 'most' people can understand what's going on. The exceptions, of course, are games that cator to one particular group of people. It's almost like comedy; Japanese find X funny, Americans find Y funny, and Canadians find Z funny. Writing Z style comedy destined for the Japanese market is almost certainly doomed to failure. In short, the writer should "know his audience".
- If your story is important, then it should be important to the players gaming experience.
-- If your story goes on and on about how these aliens are deathly affraid of fire, and then you have a flamethrower weapon in the game, the aliens should run like hell from the player when he uses it. It's VERY annoying (to me at least) for a story to give me info about, for example, the pyrophobic aliens...and then not have it make any difference in the game. I've seen (primarily) fantasy games suffer from this. The game story sets up the player as this super-powerful, ancient proficy, demi-god warrior who will save the world! I start the game...and find I have a rusty dagger and am killed by the first rat I encounter.
I'm sure I can think of more things to add, but I think these are the most important. To me at least. 
^_^
"We've got a blind date with destiny...and it looks like she's ordered the lobster."
-- The Shoveler
A7 Commercial (on Windows 7, 64-bit)
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