I think it's a bit too dark...
And I don't like the camera...

cya
logaan

Too dark, in general, or just in a few specific locations? There may be a few spots in level 1 where I may punch up the overall brightness a tad, but the goal is to emphasize very bright brights and very dark darks and heavy use of shadows(stencil when they arrive) which ties in with the 40s Noir look. One of the main problems is that not everyone's monitor is set correctly and it can be perfect on one and completely dark on another.

I've mentioned it before, but one of the best examples of this is to watch the Coen Bros. film, "The Man Who Wasn't There" aka "The Barber" in some countries. While this is a modern film, it was an homage to B&W 40s Noir and its look is basically the one I'm going for(though I came up with it well before this film ever came out). See its trailer at the link above.

As for the cameras, well, they're going to stay, but I'm always tweaking. For example, some of the views, in the "demo", are different from the ones that were there when I first offered it. The one shown in the 2nd screen above, is no longer present(and it happened to be one of my favorite angles).

I'm playing with the possibility of allowing the player to choose whether they want these cameras or a traditional 3rd person one. Even if they choose the current scheme, they will still be able to look around and move in regular 3rd person whenever they want via holding down a button(assuming I get it right - I have something in place, just not perfected, yet).

It looks great on my monitor. The whole dark, wobly-cubic, high contrast look rocks. I think adding any more ambient light would take away from the dramatic contrast you've got going there now. It works well with the B&W theme and the geometry. Just my opinion.

I was unable to see my character at all, oddly enough. I have the brightness maxxed out on my monitor, so that was not likely the culprit. I saw only a white patch at the center of the screen, with the soldier occasionally silhouetted against it as I passed.

I ran it a second time, and noticed that -- for an instant -- the background was a lighter gray, against which I could see my player model. Then it went dark before I could move.

I took a screenshot and brightened it by 50%, so the blacks were all gray; at that point, I could barely begin to make out the shapes. Not sure if it's my vidcard or what?

GeForce 4 ti4200
Windows 2000

Maybe it has something to do with your monitor's gamma setting? My old PC's monitor used to display everything dark. I couldn't play most games, though Max Payne 1 had a gamma correction setting in it's options and increasing that allowed me to play it. I then found out how to increase the gamma of my monitor, and this corrected all of my dark problems. I think it was Adobe Gamma from the Control Panel. I'm sure there are free utilities out there that can do this. I'm not sure if Windows has anything to handle this built in.

You mentioned a white patch. There is a model covering the entire view. The game starts out completely white and the controls disabled. After the white gradually fades to the scene, the controls kick in. I wonder if this model has anything to do with your white patch?

I think the white patch was part of the level geometry. I wasn't sure how to describe it.

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Maybe it has something to do with your monitor's gamma setting?

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Absolutely. But I'm comfortable with the settings while playing other games, (even 'dark' ones such as Splinter Cell) so I assume other users will see your game under similar circumstances.

I tried this on my laptop; with the brightness all the way up and the overhead light off, I can make out the surroundings well enough. However, if there's glare on the screen, or if I go to power-save mode (which reduces the brightness), I cannot. My opinion is that you'd gain by increasing the contrast: keep the blacks black, but bring the low greys up, and bring the brightest grays up to white. You'd retain a striking film noir feel while making it more comfortable for the user.

Anyway, that is really my only criticism; I especially think the camera work is excellent. Also, though perhaps this is just because you're using the soldier model, the sparing use of color within the otherwise greyscale is particularly striking.

@A. Russell:

Thanks

@tesanders:

It seems that gamma is a build option and I can't set it before a level loads like some have suggested. You can increase the brightness by increasing a view's ambient level, but the way it does it does not keep the contrast in check. JCL mentioned in another thread about using the new material system and I guess mat_shaded is what I'm wanting to experiment with. I've received some semi-promising results.

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Well, anyway, I'm going to hold off on this matter. I'm also having 2nd thoughts about the cameras. I walked through the 2 levels with my regular 3rd person cam and I'd love nothing more than to use it full time. 1) I like the "feel" of it better, 2) Less hassles when it comes to certain enemy/combat management sitauations. I'm a designer, not a coder. I can get some stuff done, but the artistic side is what I like working with and what I'm best at.

That brings me to the 3rd person camera. The reason I can't use it is because of the wall clipping thing. That's old news, however. That's the one thing holding me back from using it, and it's frustrating. My request(plead ) for assistance in implementing the feature still stands to anyone that would be willing to lend a helping hand. My PM box is always open. If it never gets perfected, no biggie, I'll just stick with the current setup.

Ok.. pull no punches...
First...
Black and white.. with no textures? ummm
no one will want to play a whole game like this.. no way. The concept is overly dogmatic and contrived. rethink your visual concept to allow for more variation in visual experience. At least make b&W textures.. bricks, concrete, etc. A little spot of color here and there would do wonders.. like a pool of red blood.. or whatever.. this way you are making a more sophisticated visual statement.

The camera approach needs serious fine-tuning of course..movement is almost impossible in some areas.

The cameras are fine, as is, there's nothing impossible about anything. There have been some "thrown together" invisible barriers placed here and there for the demo, simply because yes they do need some tweaking. However, I already mentioned they are WIP, although they are basically "almost" final.

The cinematic, story based games that have used this camera style have been some of the most successful in gaming history, both financially and critcally, and I'm attempting to take the storytelling to the next level. I can understand if it's not your style, but it's the same as 1st person shooters and multiplayer not being mine. Apples and oranges and different strokes for different folks. Same goes for lighting schemes. Some people like light and cheery, others like dark and gloomy. Some of us like both.

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Black and white.. with no textures? ummm
no one will want to play a whole game like this.. no way. The concept is overly dogmatic and contrived. rethink your visual concept to allow for more variation in visual experience. At least make b&W textures.. bricks, concrete, etc

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First, you don't know anything about my game or what it's about or any other specifics other than the snowflakes I've dropped in this thread and on the website.

Second, there are textures...the visual style is fine...it's stylized and not supposed to be realistic. I don't necessarily want little splashes of color here and there...that's why it's called black and white. Also, this is only 2 levels and you have no idea what kind of "variation" I have planned.

Third, There's nothing contrived and there are plenty of people that will want to play a B&W game. I've made my reasons for doing it this way quite clear. If there is one thing people want, it is something different. This certainly is, and your statement that no one would want to play it is just flat out wrong. You are stating it as if it is a fact and you quite frankly don't know what you're talking about. Sorry, about my little outburst here but you're clueless 100%.

Finally, all of these things are fine or working, your tone is not. Sorry, but this elitist snob "critique" doesn't sit well with me. I realize it's your opinion, which you are entitled to, but you've pressed the recently coined "goon" button and offered up a glorified "this sucks" which nullifies your opinion in my and others' eyes. If I've misunderstood or misinterpreted your remarks, then sorry, but otherwise thanks but no thanks.

but mr.aufderheide have u ever played games like resident evil? if u havent noticed most of them have the style of black&white so that it would make an earie effect? and i happen to think that this effect looks great in games? and i wouldnt start attacking peoples games if u dont know what your talking about!
so please do some research!

sry if i was off subject!