|
0 registered members (),
730
guests, and 5
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Why God exists
[Re: NITRO777]
#144909
08/23/07 06:37
08/23/07 06:37
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
@Ran_man: you're cracking me up. ^^ Quote:
A high degree of biological order is one of the fundamental characteristics of all living things. In other words 'organization' is one of the reasons why you know something is alive. Other characteristics include sensitivity to environment, movement, reproduction, metabolism and growth.
Your talking about rather advanced life already, that's not what it must have started with, God or no God, since evolution is real... life by no means has to be able to move in order for it to 'live by definition' for example. I think you are confusing the definition of a 'organism' with the definition of 'something living'. I pretty sure it's impossible for life to instantaneously come into existence as full grown monkeys, humans, horses, elephants and what complex life-forms more as creationists seem to believe. How do you think it all started when every human get's born out of other humans? There's a gap when you don't believe in evolution that you can not fill with God...
Quote:
I thought your first definition of a law was interesting because you had stated that if a scientific law were proven false, then "all science based upon that law would collapse" That was an interesting statement.
It wouldn't collapse necessarily, it simply would have to adjust, that's a little bit different in my book, but yes some thing would change in such a scenario.
Quote:
Very small, eh? Interesting. Your probably aware that the smallest cell is still much more complicated than a space shuttle? And that the smallest little machines inside these cells are still far beyond the understanding of even our most brilliant microbiologists?
If it were so easy for these life forms to organize themselves and then become alive, why isnt happening today? Why dont we see abiogenesis popping up all around us?
Scientists are busy working on it as we speak, the latest estimation speaks about artificial life within a decade. Personally I think that's a bit too optimistic.
Yes, off course it's super complex, even just a tiny cell, but can you imagine how much time it took before life ended up being what it is now? That's a lot of times your age and even more times my age, so many years in fact that if I would start counting now I'd be old before I know it. Lol, and then we're talking about years, well it's old news, but there's ~356 days in one year with an awful lot of seconds in them. Plenty of time for life to develop for what it is now, life itself is proof in a way. It exists because we know it does, but for it's origin or cause this is off course way too simplistic, hence why I don't believe in instantaneous creation of life.  Did you ever see it happen? Nope. Evolution or at least the gradual change of life adapting to it's environment is something we can witness, even if it's by looking at fossils,
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: Why God exists
[Re: PHeMoX]
#144910
08/23/07 12:32
08/23/07 12:32
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,541
Berlin
EX Citer
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,541
Berlin
|
Quote:
Does a DVD player work if it's not plugged in? No, even though it is assembled correctly it still needs that 'breath of life" in order to work. It is the same thing with living things.
@Topic starter: I couldnīt read everything on your site/link due to a lack of english knowledge, bible knowledge and time. So I picked that quote, which spiked my eye like a rambo knife.
Well, the DVD player doesnīt work because itīs not getting energy. The electrones canīt circulate through the veins of the DVD players. If you plug the DVD player into the thing with the two holes (whatever it is called in english), there wonīt stream "god" through the DVD player, itīs just energy (electrones).
OK, so what for the DVD player is the thing with the two holes, is for us food and drinks. If we donīt eat we stop working like the DVD player. But our complex organism will change when it is turned OFF. So we canīt be turned ON again after we are turned OFF one time.
What I donīt understand is how you could come on the strange idea with the dvd player/god/human/energy. I feel like you are influenced by something to come to these for me strange way of thinking.
BTW:
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm
This website equals a brain tumor or itīs not ment serious (but someone linked me once to that website, as serious(???) argument for a serious discussion).
PS: damn headaches make me stupid mistakes. Sorry for that.
:L
|
|
|
Re: Why God exists
[Re: Marco_Grubert]
#144913
09/10/07 23:10
09/10/07 23:10
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 268
United States
Doof_Guy
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 268
United States
|
i believe that Jesus Christ is God, and that to be saved we must believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that we are saved by faith. John 3:16 is my favorite verse, take a look at it sometime. God Bless you all 
|
|
|
Re: Why God exists
[Re: Joozey]
#144914
09/10/07 23:29
09/10/07 23:29
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
|
Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
|
Quote:
Just because the DVD player is not getting energy doesn't mean it doesn't work. If it didn't work then it would not properly function even WITH electricity to 'power' it. The DVD player can however work without being powered, but cannot be tested to work without it.
You're forgetting the fact that the DVD player is useless when it can not be tested whether it works or not even íf it would work with energy. If you've never seen an egg hatch at all, you can't know for sure if it ever would with some unknown x-factor.
If all dvd players need energy to work, it's likely all dvd players of the same kind need energy to work, but that's about as far as this argument can go in proving anything. We haven't seen a dvd player work; reading DVDs, playing movies, without an energy input. Does this say anything about divine interference in the coming to existence of life? At least nothing in favor of it.
Quote:
Does a DVD player work if it's not plugged in? No, even though it is assembled correctly it still needs that 'breath of life" in order to work. It is the same thing with living things.
Vagueness prevails ... not  , just think about what 'breath of life' actually means in practice. It's a vague description that indicates a seemingly crucial part of the creation of life, as if it's a real factor (as in: divine).
Did you know that eggs only need warmth to start (actually to 'continue') the final phase of creating life inside it? Without the warmth nothing will happen. Still, there's nothing 'divine' about this 'breath of life' .. we can do it too, just take a warm lamp and put it close to the egg. It does need this warmth and yes you can thus argue that it needs a 'breath of life', but under normal conditions, this is exactly what would happen. God or no God, the important factor is adding this warmth.
The eggs will hatch and you'll get chickens. Off course, perhaps not áll eggs will hatch, but that would be because of internal biological reasons. Some eggs might not have been fertile at all or may have been faulty in whatever other way. All these processes can be followed rather closely and while there are still things we don't quite know, there's zero evidence for any divine interference.
Cheers
|
|
|
Re: Why God exists
[Re: PHeMoX]
#144915
09/11/07 00:13
09/11/07 00:13
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,215
ISG
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,215
|
Quote:
You're forgetting the fact that the DVD player is useless when it can not be tested whether it works or not even íf it would work with energy.
Usefullness can still be upheld for the DVD player without electricity. It may not be capable of carrying out its purposeful duties like it was built, but still it can be useful for other things (such as holding other objects).
|
|
|
Re: Why God exists
[Re: Doof_Guy]
#144917
09/11/07 01:47
09/11/07 01:47
|
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,206
Innsbruck, Austria
sPlKe
Expert
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,206
Innsbruck, Austria
|
Quote:
i believe that Jesus Christ is God, and that to be saved we must believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that we are saved by faith.
John 3:16 is my favorite verse, take a look at it sometime.
God Bless you all
thank you for putting your faith into me...
you can join SPIKEOLOGY HERE!
Now onto the main event.
please read this carefully:
first, can anyone tell me why you WANT to have a god? i mean, arent you happy to be FREE to do whatever you want? do you want to make yourself dependant of some being you dont know? why do you want that? why do you want to be a slave?beliving in god is slavery. if you dont do waht he wants, you are punished. slavery. he promises stuff. you belive it. but do you KNOW that you get it? no. you jsut read it in a book or heard that it is this way. but you have NO proof...
god must be a real cracker. i mean, he is allmighty. he knows everythign and sees everything. why does he need you? why does he need your love? to prove yourself? of what use is this? he knows how you are. why pray? he knows whats going on. why did he gave us a free will? he knows whats coming out of it.
he is actually a pretty nasty sucker. i mean if he really lvoes us, he would just give us the answers we are searhcing for. why isnt he giving answers? does he not want to? or isnt he able to? but he is allmighty he is able to. so why doesnt he want to give us answer? context sensitive? to prove us? for what, he KNOWS whats goign to happen...
and can someone finalyl tell me if god can create a stone even he couldnt lift?
no matter how you answer, the answer indicates that he is NOT allmighty. so, if he is not allmiighty, what else is he unable to do?
why does he need our love anyway? i mean, why even bother? he must be a real depressed god if he needs the love of US miserably humans. i mean, if im omnipotent, i dont give a damn about the love of some suckers. maybe hwe is just a nice guy. no.. he isnt... he doesnt even give us anything, he just wants us to do what he tells us... slavery...
i could go on liek this for hours...
you know what? im geting sick of this. anybody who just stops and thinks about this will realize that there cannot be a god. because god is a paradoxon in himself. its not possible. and if there is a god, he is not allmighty. and if he is not allmighty, he is no god.
case closed
|
|
|
|
