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Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Machinery_Frank] #159198
10/08/07 00:40
10/08/07 00:40
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
M
Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
Expert
Matt_Aufderheide  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
Quote:

id Tech 5 is based on DX9




No this is incorrect.. its uses OpenGl, but is based in DX9 hardware standards (pixel shader 3.0, etc)...


Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159199
10/08/07 02:07
10/08/07 02:07
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 702
Z
zazang Offline
User
zazang  Offline
User
Z

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 702
In DX10,I really find 2 things very good :- Soft particles and SSS for realistic face simulation.

Btw,This is from the DX10 manual :-

Applications, including Games, that wish to support both Direct3D 9 and Direct3D 10 need to have the rendering layers abstracted from the rest of the code base. There are many ways to achieve this but key to all of them is the design of the abstraction layer for the lower-level Direct3D device. All systems should communicate to the hardware through the common layer which is designed to provide GPU resource and low-level type management

zazang


I like good 'views' because they have no 'strings' attached..
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: zazang] #159200
10/08/07 05:10
10/08/07 05:10
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
Senior Expert
Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Matt:
Your source of information is not reliable. Look here:
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/462
It shows that id Software will support DX9 for PC and XBOX360 (OpenGL is not available at XBOX) but it will have a special renderer for MAC probably based on OpenGL and a renderer for PS3. They will ignore DX10 at the moment.

They aim at the engine market again and support all major platforms now.
And with mega-texture technology and the new terrain renderer they allow outdoor and indoor with amazing frame rates and visual quality.


zazang:
Do you know "Enemy Territory Quake Wars"? It uses soft particles even with Windows XP (no DX 10 needed for that).


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Machinery_Frank] #159201
10/08/07 06:14
10/08/07 06:14
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 702
Z
zazang Offline
User
zazang  Offline
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Z

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 702
Friendly_Frank...Yep indeed its possible to do soft particles already in DX9.
but is there any fps gain in DX10 ?
Also,I wonder what are the effects that are DX10 exclusive.


I like good 'views' because they have no 'strings' attached..
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: zazang] #159202
10/08/07 06:16
10/08/07 06:16
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Machinery_Frank  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Quote:

Also,I wonder what are the effects that are only in DX10 exclusive.




Real displacement mapping (deforming the geometry through texture maps) as an example. Some shader gurus can tell you more about other exclusive features (I am just a shader-user).


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Machinery_Frank] #159203
10/08/07 07:54
10/08/07 07:54
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
M
Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
Expert
Matt_Aufderheide  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
You can do displacement mapping, soft particles subsurface scxatter already in Pixel sahder 3.0

I assume id is making multiple versions of Rage then, using OpenGL and Direct3D...


Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159204
10/08/07 11:51
10/08/07 11:51
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 761
Hrvatska (Croatia ), Slavonski...
cro_games Offline
User
cro_games  Offline
User

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 761
Hrvatska (Croatia ), Slavonski...
hmm...I think that it isnt time yet to switch to the DX10,on A/7.6 maybe.


Hello everyone my name is Ivan Mandic from "Frozen pixel studio". wink
-----------------------------------
Homepage: www.fpx-studio.com
e-mail: emu_hunter_1990@hotmail.com
(working on a game engine)
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159205
10/08/07 12:30
10/08/07 12:30
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,875
broozar Offline
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broozar  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,875
Quote:

What does that have to do with anything? Id games are OpenGl because Carmack likes that API...




for me the importance of directX is overrated, and even id tech 5, referring to frank's link, was first shown on a mac. i know about your aversion against openGL. i don't know where it comes from. what do i need directX10 as a non-crossplatform, special-hardware-only, vista-only environment if openGL always seems to be a step ahead? what do you hope from getting it into 3dgs, something that would really change the 3dgs experience? most users don't even use a single shader here, but beside that, it would limit 3dgs to a group of rather few developers which conitec could not afford to do.
i'm not a graphics programmer and cannot compare the effort for directX or openGL implementation, and i do not refer to the new features of directX10, i solely doubt that it would be the way to go for 3dgs not even having a reliable lighting/shadowing system.

Re: English DX10 thread [Re: broozar] #159206
10/08/07 15:38
10/08/07 15:38
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,364
Minbar
M
MaxF Offline
Serious User
MaxF  Offline
Serious User
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,364
Minbar
I hope 3DGS supports OpenGL in the future so that we can use GLSL 1.20 for geometry programs enabling Pixel Shader 4.0+ compatibility - that would be GREAT no need then for DX10!

see web page

Last edited by MaxF; 10/08/07 15:45.

Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159207
10/08/07 17:51
10/08/07 17:51
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
Doug Offline
Senior Expert
Doug  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
Quote:

Id games are OpenGl because Carmack likes that API...




If Carmack "likes" an API, he has a good reason for it.

Carmack has gone back and forth between DX and OpenGL depending on how well they meet his needs at that time. He's using both OpenGL and DX9 right now because they're the best tools for what he wants to get done (cross-platform with OpenGL, excellent hardware support on Windows (plus XBox360) with DX9).

Carmack is not using DX10 because it only supports one OS (Vista) and really doesn't offer much more than DX9 (it's easier to program for, but you can get the same effects with DX9).


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