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Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Doug] #159208
10/08/07 22:32
10/08/07 22:32
Joined: Oct 2003
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
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Matt_Aufderheide  Offline OP
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Quote:

Carmack is not using DX10 because it only supports one OS (Vista) and really doesn't offer much more than DX9 (it's easier to program for, but you can get the same effects with DX9).




I disagree..DX10 is very much a different animal in terms of what is possible.. for one thing geometry shaders are clearly a huge step forward in what is possible (real displacement mapping based on dynamic tesselation, etc.) Also geometry shaders allow much easier instancing, and even rendering of cubemaps wiht only one draw call..which makes shadow mapping much faster, and also allows for realtime refelction mapping and so on.

Shader model 4 has a unified structure, which it much easier to do certain effects like vertex texture fetch, which currently only works on Nvidia cards in DX9. Vertex textures are useful for many things like advanced water effects and terrain.

My new Sphere renderer relies on vertex textures for everything.. its a shame that ATI users wont be able to run it (ATI has this crappy render-to-vertex-buffer which is non-intuitive and requires an alternate codepath).


Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159209
10/08/07 22:36
10/08/07 22:36
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
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ventilator  Offline
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Quote:

[...]and even rendering of cubemaps wiht only one draw call.


i read about that before but didn't understand it. could you give more details? what exactly does this mean?

Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159210
10/08/07 22:42
10/08/07 22:42
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Netherlands
Quote:

Obviously, the jump from DX10 to DX9 is bigger than DX8 to DX9 because not so many people have Vista yet.




Yup, exactly the reason why I think that the world isn't ready for a DirectX 10-based 3dgs yet.

Off course I can not see in my magic mirror what kind of computers we all have here, but the amount of people that actually have DX10-ready hardware is most likely still extremely small. Besides, the people who do have the latest hardware are likely not to be potential costumers anyways...

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: ventilator] #159211
10/09/07 06:22
10/09/07 06:22
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Posts: 4,131
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
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Matt_Aufderheide  Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

[...]and even rendering of cubemaps wiht only one draw call.


i read about that before but didn't understand it. could you give more details? what exactly does this mean?




Because you have access to a geometry shader, you can send the data for one scene to the card and do the transforms and create duplicates for each of the 6 cubemap faces in hardware. Essentially you can render a whole cubemap with one draw call for a batched scene. While it has some additional overhead it should be far quicker than rendering all six scenes seperately of course.

This is obviously going to make a big speed difference for things like cubic shadow mapping, which is needed for pointlights.


Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159212
10/09/07 07:30
10/09/07 07:30
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Machinery_Frank  Offline
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Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Quote:

My new Sphere renderer relies on vertex textures for everything.. its a shame that ATI users wont be able to run it (ATI has this crappy render-to-vertex-buffer which is non-intuitive and requires an alternate codepath).




This is really a pity. Imagine a game where you have to print at the package: DirectX 10 or latest Nvidia Cards only.

I am a big Sphere fan and would buy your pack instantly even for higher price than the old ones. But with such restrictions I can not do it. I even do not own Windows Vista and dont want to waste all my RAM just for an OS.

So I have to hope that Conitec modernizes the 3dgs renderer anytime in the future.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Machinery_Frank] #159213
10/09/07 15:12
10/09/07 15:12
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
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Matt_Aufderheide  Offline OP
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It runs fine in DX9 on Nvidia 6 series or better...

It just wont run on ATI cards because they are crap.


Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Matt_Aufderheide] #159214
10/09/07 16:36
10/09/07 16:36
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
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FBL Offline
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FBL  Offline
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...which makes Sphere basically useless.

Re: English DX10 thread [Re: FBL] #159215
10/09/07 16:54
10/09/07 16:54
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,534
hamburg
Samb Offline
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Samb  Offline
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Posts: 1,534
hamburg
... and thats why we never saw any sphere game.

Re: English DX10 thread [Re: Samb] #159216
10/10/07 10:43
10/10/07 10:43
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,131
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Matt_Aufderheide Offline OP
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Quote:

... and thats why we never saw any sphere game.




No that's nothing to do with anything.. that is only for the upcoming version, which may be a long time from now when the ATI problem is resolved somehow...please pay attention before making generalizations.


Sphere Engine--the premier A6 graphics plugin.
Re: English DX10 thread [Re: FBL] #159217
10/15/07 19:00
10/15/07 19:00
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,758
Antwerp,Belgium
frazzle Offline
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frazzle  Offline
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Antwerp,Belgium
Quote:

...which makes Sphere basically useless.




That's abit harsh Firoball, Sphere is a pro/quality product only intended for users who have Nvidia cards up-to-now if I understand Matt correctly
I've learned alot form the code from Sphere, not only qua graphical programming (HLSL) but c-script as well. Maybe most of the users make advantage of Sphere for its graphical beauty, but I used it as a learing source too

Cheers

Frazzle


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