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Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: FBL] #178509
01/21/08 11:23
01/21/08 11:23
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 290
Latvia
Leonardo Offline
Member
Leonardo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 290
Latvia
You just made the biggest mistake you can make in a discussion like this! Saying that my opinion doesn't matter and that I am wrong, just because I haven't got any videos on Youtube that have gotten 60'000 hits! That's arrogance in it's full beauty! That's like saying that all of the writers for Gaming magazines are wrong and can't have opinions, that most of the players are wrong, because I don't think they have a video like that too! I mean, I don't need to make a video, to know that there are things wrong with this game!
And have you read the articles, watched the videos and read the comments? I wouldn't like my game to be associated with such negative critics! There is a reason why that video is put up on such many places - because people laugh at it!
And I don't know if it sells, RanMan said it himself, he only got $100 and spent $7000 on this game.... unless he is lying... So these numbers kinda prove what some of us have been trying to explain here!


"Things of the mind left untested by the senses are useless."
Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: FBL] #178510
01/21/08 13:28
01/21/08 13:28
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
San Francisco
JetpackMonkey Offline OP
Serious User
JetpackMonkey  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
San Francisco
It's fun, too, in its own weird way. At least the demo is.

Leonardo: the adage goes, "There is no such thing as bad publicity"

Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: JetpackMonkey] #178511
01/21/08 14:29
01/21/08 14:29
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 290
Latvia
Leonardo Offline
Member
Leonardo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 290
Latvia
I know that even bad publicity is publicity either way, but I do not think this applies to games that have bad reviews, bad comments, etc. Better reviews and better feedback encourages other people to consider buying the game, but bad feedback does exactly the opposite. Of course, more people will download the demo, but because of these comments most of them will already have created an opinion without looking at the demo.
And it is necessary for a game maker to maintain a decent flow of users to their website, but bad publicity means that a user will visit the site only once and will never return.


"Things of the mind left untested by the senses are useless."
Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: Leonardo] #178512
01/21/08 15:10
01/21/08 15:10
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
xXxGuitar511 Offline
Expert
xXxGuitar511  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,503
SC, United States
...funny thing Leonardo, I haven't seen ANY media from you period...

Last edited by xXxGuitar511; 01/21/08 15:11.

xXxGuitar511
- Programmer
Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: xXxGuitar511] #178513
01/21/08 15:23
01/21/08 15:23
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
Pappenheimer Offline
Senior Expert
Pappenheimer  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,900
Bielefeld, Germany
People, calm down!

Leonardo has already shown a very nice casual game in showcase. You might missed it, xXxGuitare511.

Firoball, didn't say that your opinion doesn't matter, Leonardo, he just said, that whatever we think about RanMan's game, at least he got such publicity, that almost all of us did _not_ achieve.

Okay, questionable is, whether a "bad" publicity could be a "good" publicity in that respect that it sells the game.

Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: xXxGuitar511] #178514
01/21/08 15:26
01/21/08 15:26
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 290
Latvia
Leonardo Offline
Member
Leonardo  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 290
Latvia
And you won't in the next few weeks. People say things like this, when they run out of arguments, so I guess you have none. Also, check the ShowcaseI, I believe I had a post there. I repeat, for those who don't understand or don't want to understand - I do not have to make a car to know when a car has problems, I do not have to bake a cake, to know when a cake tastes bad, the same goes for games!
And don't you think it is a bit stupid to not consider one's arguments, just because he hasn't put up a video on youtube, or made a thread in Showcase??
I can clearly see, some of the people in this community have problems - all I did was give a normal and constructive critic, so that RanMan could improve his game, but all I get in response is this "If I haven't seen your media, you are a nobody" attitude! Read this whole thread again and tell me, which of my suggestions to RanMan were wrong, and also read ShowcaseI a bit more, before writing such arrogant claims!

OK, I have written everything I can. Those who want to understand, will, but those who don't.... whatever.
I can only suggest that RanMan reads this thread and tries to improve on his idea, I wish him luck with that.
And I'm done arguing here, that was never my intention. ^^


"Things of the mind left untested by the senses are useless."
Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: Leonardo] #178515
01/21/08 15:37
01/21/08 15:37
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
F
FBL Offline
Senior Expert
FBL  Offline
Senior Expert
F

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
Quote:

You just made the biggest mistake you can make in a discussion like this! Saying that my opinion doesn't matter and that I am wrong, just because I haven't got any videos on Youtube that have gotten 60'000 hits!




I did neither mention you, nor did I say those things in my post.

Read my post, read the topic. Read my post again. Thanks.

Apart from that: bad publicity is still more than no publicity at all.

Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: FBL] #178516
01/21/08 16:17
01/21/08 16:17
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
San Francisco
JetpackMonkey Offline OP
Serious User
JetpackMonkey  Offline OP
Serious User

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
San Francisco
You know, after a lot of consideration, I think Zoo Racing kicks a whole lot of butt, a little bit like Plan 9 From Outer Space does. It's considered a bad movie, but it's also fantastic and wonderful and fun. And Ed Wood is admired for it, enough to warrant a big hollywood movie about him starring Johnny Depp.

I'm tempted to buy a copy of Zoo Racing for the complete experience. I've been waiting for there to be a game equivalent to a fun B-Movie, and I think this is it. It's a very good thing and is going to make a lot of people happy. The flaws which everyone has pointed out, me included, I am beginning to see as its charm.

It has a kind of hand-crafted, outsider/folk art appeal to it. It's not an over-produced, over shined $20 million game, it's a one-of-a-kind artifact of a unique slice of modern American culture. It's totally worth $17.77. There are a lot of people with very good taste who appreciate this kind of thing for that reason.

Personally, if I had to buy one or the other, I'd choose Zoo Racing over any EA popular sports (except snowboarding, whee), real time strategy game or some stupid tom clancy game. I'm totally serious.



Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: FBL] #178517
01/22/08 20:01
01/22/08 20:01
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
fastlane69 Offline
Senior Expert
fastlane69  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,377
USofA
Damned if you do; Damned if you don't.
That's what this thread showcases about our community.

You complete a game and it gets public attention but isn't polished and you get lambasted.
You create a polished screenshot that purely stays in the community and it get's praised.

I'm glad to see that once again, the Gamestudio community is about recognizing the making of pretty pictures and not fun games.

Why the rant?

Because Ran's game IS a complete game and because it isn't using the latest shaders or the latest techniques, people bomb it immediately.

Is the game fun for me? No.
Would I buy it? No.
Does this diminish my respect of Ran Man and his game? Abso-friken-lutely-not.

It's oh so easy to pick on the Christian and his racing game... easy because you know he won't fight back and pick YOUR games apart, right? Like Firo states: it's easy to throw stones at glass houses when you are homeless, dig?

This is not Showcase. IMO this is not a place to criticize his game and pictures and state you should have done this that and the other thing. This is the gameplay forum. Instead of saying how ugly the pictures are, the real questions the REAL game designers would be asking are: How did you get a kotaku article? What have the sales been like? What are people saying about the GAMEPLAY and not the pictures? How long did it take you to make? How long after it was made did it start getting attention and how? How did you game design start and/or change over the development time? These are the sort of comments that I think would benefit us more than simply staing (ad nausium) that you don't like the 3D Game Studio Name or that the pictures are ugly!

So let me try to turn the tone of this discussion:

Ran Man, congrats on getting so much attention on you game. It is admittedly unpolished but it goes to show that an unpolished good idea and hard work will get you way further than a polished bad idea and no work. Hopefully you can turn the attention on this game into attention to your other works and perhaps even a sequel!

So how DID you get an article on Kotaku?

Re: KOTAKU Article - Zoo Racing [Re: JetpackMonkey] #178518
01/22/08 21:12
01/22/08 21:12
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Quote:

>The biggest mistake RanMan has done with this game, is actually thinking that the game is worth $17.77!
Really? that seems pretty trivial to me. Indie developers shouldn't sell their games for too little. I've read that games with a very low price point sell less than ones priced higher, regardless of quality.




Yes, very true. Any game priced less than 19.99$ will automatically be considered "crappy because it's cheap".

As for Ran_Man's games, his humor is unmatched in any other 3dgs projects, so regardless of his ideas about Christianity, I'd like people that bash his stuff to come forward with their games so we can bash that... because honestly I doubt it will really be better in terms of fun.

Don't forget that you don't get 77.000+ views on youtube if something isn't at least interesting or funny!!

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
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