Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
Newbie Questions
by fairtrader. 12/05/23 14:22
Zorro Trader GPT
by TipmyPip. 12/04/23 11:34
Square root rule
by Smallz. 12/02/23 09:15
RTest not found error
by TipmyPip. 12/01/23 21:43
neural function for Python to [Train]
by TipmyPip. 12/01/23 14:47
Xor Memory Problem.
by TipmyPip. 11/28/23 14:23
Training with command line parameters
by TipmyPip. 11/26/23 08:42
Combine USD & BTC Pairs In Asset Loop
by TipmyPip. 11/26/23 08:30
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
A psychological thriller game
SHADOW (2014)
DEAD TASTE
Tactics of World War I
Who's Online Now
3 registered members (TedMar, AndrewAMD, fairtrader), 578 guests, and 0 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
fairtrader, hus, Vurtis, Harry5, KelvinC
19019 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Robot Arena [Re: Puppeteer] #180854
01/31/08 21:50
01/31/08 21:50
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
You mean more customizable as the old Robot Arena was? I don't think that's necessary actually. It probably will only scare off newcomers, don't you think?

I think the old Robot Arena might have sort of died because people thought it was too difficult and they never tried. (Even though it really wasn't difficult to get started)

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Robot Arena [Re: PHeMoX] #180855
01/31/08 21:59
01/31/08 21:59
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
Senior Expert
ventilator  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
maybe doug will release the code and then it could be ported to lite-c.

i wasn't really around at the time of robot arena but i think the robot code had to be manually checked for cheating (use of disallowed functions and variables)?

maybe the new version could implement bindings to a scripting language (something like lua, squirrel or python) where cheating isn't possible because only allowed stuff is available. with such dynamic languages you also wouldn't always have to recompile just to test a robot.

Re: Robot Arena [Re: ventilator] #180856
02/01/08 00:03
02/01/08 00:03
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134
Netherlands
Joozey Offline
Expert
Joozey  Offline
Expert

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134
Netherlands
Well, if you cán write everything but have to include certain scripts because else your bot wont move or attack, you can exclude illegal things as well. This way you can try all the things you want, but are bound to the variables (health, damage, etc.) maintained by the "template scripts".

Last edited by Joozey; 02/01/08 00:04.

Click and join the 3dgs irc community!
Room: #3dgs
Re: Robot Arena [Re: Joozey] #180857
02/01/08 01:34
02/01/08 01:34
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134
Netherlands
Joozey Offline
Expert
Joozey  Offline
Expert

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,134
Netherlands
Quote:

maybe doug will release the code and then it could be ported to lite-c.




Well well, look what I found 3 years ago
http://www.coniserver.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/478918/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1

Quote:

giorgi3 - Tue Feb 22 2005 01:05 PM:
Hey Doug,

How about just posting the whole thing, source, level, bots and all and let the community make what they can of it! It could be great fun.


Quote:

Doug - Wed Feb 23 2005 07:52 AM:
Done. In fact everything has been available since day one.
Download and enjoy.





So, http://www.conitec.net/arena/ seems to be still working ^^.
Trying to download some stuff from there now and see what's in there.
Never tried the arena contest, although I was already pondering in the forum at the time


EDIT:
Tried the robot contest arena "final 8 contest"-viewer, it's really fun to see haha. Especially Phantoms revenge vs Phantoms Revenge LE is really fun ^^ (gotta wait a minute though before something happens ).

Well the arena code doesn't run anymore as expected, but it seems to be really there, and can be rewritten by anyone ^^.
Anyone?

Last edited by Joozey; 02/01/08 01:52.

Click and join the 3dgs irc community!
Room: #3dgs
Re: Robot Arena [Re: Joozey] #180858
02/01/08 03:57
02/01/08 03:57
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Yes, but someone has to either re-write a launcher program or we need the source code of that too, right? I think updating old syntax isn't the only thing that needs to be done..

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Robot Arena [Re: PHeMoX] #180859
02/01/08 04:52
02/01/08 04:52
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
Doug Offline
Senior Expert
Doug  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
If memory serves me, the launcher just moved two robot files into a main folder (renaming the files to robot1.wdl and robot2.wdl) then launches the program using a command line. Not worth looking up the source IMHO.


Conitec's Free Resources:
User Magazine || Docs and Tutorials || WIKI
Re: Robot Arena [Re: Doug] #180860
02/01/08 10:41
02/01/08 10:41
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,619
Germany
Scorpion Offline
Serious User
Scorpion  Offline
Serious User

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,619
Germany
i think just a model is too resticted. then it would justmake optically a sense. What I would really favourite for that would be to make your robot out of physic-parts you can control with motors. So the way to win is how to _construct_ your robot instead of just calculating some predefined varaibles for who is winning.

If you can do it the right way such motors could also get damaged(i.e. not a big accelration for a motor anymore or smth.) if the specific parts was hit too often.

Re: Robot Arena [Re: Doug] #180861
02/01/08 10:54
02/01/08 10:54
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
Senior Expert
PHeMoX  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
Quote:

If memory serves me, the launcher just moved two robot files into a main folder (renaming the files to robot1.wdl and robot2.wdl) then launches the program using a command line. Not worth looking up the source IMHO.




Okey, yes, you're right that wouldn't be worth the trouble. But what about the part where it searches for the acknex.exe what exactly was the purpose of that?

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: Robot Arena [Re: PHeMoX] #180862
02/01/08 17:45
02/01/08 17:45
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
Doug Offline
Senior Expert
Doug  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
It searches for acknex.exe because it needs it to compile and run the game. Here is the (simple) version of what goes on:

1) User selects two robot code files.
2) The robot files are moved to a folder with all the other Arena code.
3) The game is compiled/run using the user's acknex.exe file.


Conitec's Free Resources:
User Magazine || Docs and Tutorials || WIKI
Re: Robot Arena [Re: Doug] #180863
02/01/08 18:20
02/01/08 18:20
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
Doug Offline
Senior Expert
Doug  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,973
Bay Area
Here's my one minute postmortem of Arena:

What went right
1) The concept is interesting. Who doesn't like blowing up robots?
2) Added several features to engine.
3) Spectator mode with multiple camera angles and a sports-like leader board allowed non-scripters to enjoy the project.
4) KISS. There where a ton of things I wanted to add (triggers, jumps, power-ups, etc.), but I stuck with the core. It's hard enough to track and kill a single robot without worrying about pit-traps.
5) Limiting scripts. I figured out quickly that there had to be rules on what you could and couldn't use with scripts. Being able to teleport or just remove() robots would have been no fun.

What went wrong
1) "Scripting is hard." Few users in 2002 could write scripts. Part of the reason for the Arena project was to encourage people to learn scripting, but only a couple people tried.
2) "AI is hard." Users either fear AI, or think that they can just use a bunch of random numbers to beat their opponents. The best scripts where the most simple ones.
3) "Arena is hard." Writing a robot from scratch required a certain frame of thought. Once you had the basics down, tweaking a robot wasn't too difficult but getting something started was frustrating.


What I would do for Arena2:
1) DATA-DRIVE! Do not require new users to learn scripting, and do not force weird limits on experienced scripters. Instead, make a simple command language (like LOGO) and allow users to write using that.
2) Use Physics. Now that all versions have physics, use it.


Conitec's Free Resources:
User Magazine || Docs and Tutorials || WIKI
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Gamestudio download | chip programmers | Zorro platform | shop | Data Protection Policy

oP group Germany GmbH | Birkenstr. 25-27 | 63549 Ronneburg / Germany | info (at) opgroup.de

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1