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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#182447
02/07/08 19:00
02/07/08 19:00
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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You seem to forget that...
No. I forget nothing 
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...the Quest3D engine has a whole different customer base.
Yes. I agree.
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Generally those people can program very well...
I dont agree. Quest 3d scripts are clicked togehter in a visual script designer.
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...and a lot of them seem to be semi-professionals compared to the 3DGS's customer base.
Ok. This might be true. So 3dgs customers are less professional. This is the case with the majority of them. But ask yourself: Not the community is to blame for that. The communities gather around the product that fits to them.
If you all say that here are mainly coders, then it means, 3dgs is fun to code. If you say there are no artists then it is the other way around for them. If you say, there are no professionals here, then there is something missing, something they need badly.
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It's apples and oranges, so obviously the demos aren't comparable either.
Both are fruits providing vitamins (Both are engines rendering content to the screen, displaying sound and providing input options for controling the camera. Both can create games or walkthroughs).
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I think there are talented people here, but from the way I see it, this community isn't at their level of experience and competence by far.
Again. The community is not made by a god. If pro users did not gather here then there must be reasons for that. Maybe those reasons disappear in the future with new features. But it is not the community to blame for this situation.
To come back to topic: A demo should display what a game-engine can do. But what is a game engine made for? There is input and output for the final product. Output is only screen and speakers (watching and listening). So it is sound and graphik. The input comes from keyboard, mouse or gamepad. This is what a game-engine is and this should be presented in a demo. Graphik is probably the most important point in terms of output otherwise you would all start to make music with another software 
But users of this forum tend to say: "We dont need good output. Graphic and sound is not important. Hacking on keyboard is."
I understand this if you like to hack tons of code - then hacking is great. But gamers see it the other way around. They want to have much impact with little but fitting control. That means: good handling of camera or player while pressing only a few buttons but experiencing great worlds (via eyes and ears).
Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: broozar]
#182449
02/07/08 19:22
02/07/08 19:22
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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Hey, I very much like the ideas of LarryLaffer and Broozar. They can be combined with each other.
Behind each door is a showcase of another feature of 3dgs. What should we show there?
- terrain lod - more than 8 dynamic lights - poly collision (maybe in a complex cave) - shaders - ABT scene management with many polygons - particles
And maybe Conitec can later add: shadow via second uv-set, decals
What would you like to show?
Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: Xarthor]
#182453
02/07/08 22:18
02/07/08 22:18
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,023 The Netherlands
Helghast
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,023
The Netherlands
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The "shooting part" could also be added to a "physics-room" where you can shoot things which hang around, or Helghast provides his ragdoll code and the user can have some fun with that too
YES YES YES, i get it! 
im working my ass off on some optimisation codes for you guys i've done one out of 3 now, stop whining! it'll be here soon enough 
and yes, it'll include a testlevel, what i had in mind was a set of stairs that you could knock the enemy's over the railings, making them fall story's down should be rather easy.
anyway, i'll be back on optimizing!
*my precious*
regards,
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#182454
02/07/08 22:19
02/07/08 22:19
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Generally those people can program very well...
I dont agree. Quest 3d scripts are clicked togehter in a visual script designer.
I seriously doubt this, especially those demos in the contest, but if you say so... 
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...and a lot of them seem to be semi-professionals compared to the 3DGS's customer base.
Ok. This might be true. So 3dgs customers are less professional. This is the case with the majority of them. But ask yourself: Not the community is to blame for that. The communities gather around the product that fits to them.
If you all say that here are mainly coders, then it means, 3dgs is fun to code. If you say there are no artists then it is the other way around for them. If you say, there are no professionals here, then there is something missing, something they need badly.
Actually I'm not talking about coders or artists, I'm talking about teams. Artists usually join teams that already have decided for a certain engine and here it just seems that not many artists tend to choose for 3DGS for their own game-making endeavors. Is this really relevant when your teams consists of capable coders ánd artists that will use 3rd party tools mostly anyways? No, off course not.
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It's apples and oranges, so obviously the demos aren't comparable either.
Both are fruits providing vitamins (Both are engines rendering content to the screen, displaying sound and providing input options for controling the camera. Both can create games or walkthroughs).
Even if money wouldn't be an issue they would still be quite different. In fact, you said so yourself, there are different communities gathering around these products. From a technical point of view there are some obvious differences too. In a sense it's the very same thing why you wouldn't ever want to compare 3DGS to the Unreal 3 engine. We can't compete on that level and therefore should not, there's plenty of other ways to make fun and innovative games instead of relying on technical superiority only. Because frankly I'm sure there are Quest3D games that suck bigtime even wíth better graphics.
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Again. The community is not made by a god. If pro users did not gather here then there must be reasons for that. Maybe those reasons disappear in the future with new features. But it is not the community to blame for this situation.
Actually the community ís to blame for the part where they aren't able to get a team together and make and finish games, obviously with a handful of exceptions that's largely the case here. It's not the tools that define how good a game will be, it's the developers, well excuse me for saying this, but you don't seem to grasp that.
Cheers
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: Damocles]
#182456
02/07/08 22:45
02/07/08 22:45
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012 germany, dresden
ulf
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012
germany, dresden
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Quote:
Again. The community is not made by a god. If pro users did not gather here then there must be reasons for that. Maybe those reasons disappear in the future with new features. But it is not the community to blame for this situation.
actually if you watch closely there are a lot "pro" users around using 3dgs. the only problem is, that most of the so called "pro" users are not really active in the community.
by using the term "pro" i refer to those who make finished games or applications with gamestudio. for some unknown reasons if some guys know they can achieve something, they rather spent time doing so, with their own team instead of wasting valuable time in a "newb" community. think about how much time you waste just browsing this forum 
there are exceptions - wich is good, but the majority of those who use gamestudio as a real commercial way of making money is not present here, or rarely seen.
the most helpful for the community are people trying out little things, experimenting, writing little contributions and so on.
correct me if i'm wrong. even with the best engine you can't change this fact.
edit: oh and by the way, if you guys worry about the community, there is a nice #3dgs channel open in quakenet. unfortunately the 'community' is not interested and there are only ~3-5 guys online there... if you take the garagegames torque irc channel you find up to 100 there on peak times... thats a fact speaking for itself. 
Last edited by ulf; 02/07/08 22:49.
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