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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: JetpackMonkey] #182477
02/09/08 14:44
02/09/08 14:44
Joined: Sep 2003
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FBL Offline
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FBL  Offline
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- showing the capabilities of the scripting language: not just games but things like a music player or some sort of xml parser (or similar) to show that the whole system is really flexible
- demos of different genres
- management of large scenes (terrain with grass and/or many objects)
- demonstration of physics engine
- Multiplayer application
- eye candy like shaders, normal mapping, lighting, particles and more
- Different ways of using framed models, boned models, sprites and map entities, maybe also prefabs. Showing the usage of mesh, model, blocks. some sort of workshop showing the same scenes with different approaches and then show pros and cons of each way.

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: FBL] #182478
02/09/08 16:24
02/09/08 16:24
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012
germany, dresden
ulf Offline
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germany, dresden
i would like to see some sort of chain reaction thing! imagine at the beginning you have a brick falling down starting the reaction, then the camera slowly moves along a room and follows the reaction... think of stuff like dominos falling down, forming cool pictures, things falling in a water with a cool watershader producing waves... you could go on and leave the scene like in "animal race" and continue the chain reaction outdoors with waving grass...

something like this, with shaders, lots of stuff moving utilizing physics so its different everytime you watch it.

or even more interactive do it blackandwhite style, your some kind of god in a room with theese chain reaction ready settings, you can drop stuff to initiate it. have people running around wich you can drag and drop too...

possibilities are endless... if you do it with shadows, shaders and so on this will bring the engine to its knees an show what its capable of...

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: FBL] #182479
02/09/08 19:42
02/09/08 19:42
Joined: Jul 2001
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HeelX Offline
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Quote:

- showing the capabilities of the scripting language: not just games but things like a music player or some sort of xml parser (or similar) to show that the whole system is really flexible
- demos of different genres
- management of large scenes (terrain with grass and/or many objects)
- demonstration of physics engine
- Multiplayer application
- eye candy like shaders, normal mapping, lighting, particles and more
- Different ways of using framed models, boned models, sprites and map entities, maybe also prefabs. Showing the usage of mesh, model, blocks. some sort of workshop showing the same scenes with different approaches and then show pros and cons of each way.




All these things are nice suggestions, though, the engine is not capable to demonstrate only one of these in a superb quality - out of the box. Period.

Even the simple "mediaplayer" application isn't doable without extending the engine by an own plugin. We cannot take Gamestudio as "black-box" with the premise that everything is doable. It is developed breadthwise. You have to take that into account.

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: HeelX] #182480
02/09/08 22:59
02/09/08 22:59
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FBL Offline
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Why shouldn't a media player using the media_ instructions be possible out of the box?

I don't see any need for extra plugins for the other suggestions either.

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: FBL] #182481
02/09/08 23:09
02/09/08 23:09
Joined: Jul 2001
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HeelX Offline
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HeelX  Offline
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-> seeking

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: HeelX] #182482
02/09/08 23:16
02/09/08 23:16
Joined: Sep 2003
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FBL Offline
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Seeking is useful and should be supported, but media can still be played without.

If the only reason for not making a demo because not *everything* is supported - then why even bother about the whole topic?

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: HeelX] #182483
02/09/08 23:33
02/09/08 23:33
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Quote:

Hey, such a style also requires talented people. You can do single things "with style" and also games "with style" but the gap between these two points is big.




I agree that coming up with a certain "style" to a game may require designer talent, but I do not agree that vector-ish graphics require much artistic talent! People focus way way way too much on nice 3D "next-gen" graphics over here and too much on shaders thinking those are necessary to make good looking (or fun) games.

Look at games that use simple squares, circles and so on. Why aren't there more games like Inago Rage? Last I heard it was a pretty successful game. I'm by no means saying that making that game was easy. I'm only saying it doesn't make sense for a programmer to focus heavily on art if they aren't able to really make good looking art. Hence why I think good teams are a more important factor for a project's success anyways.

Quote:

BTW, RUDIs art is actually programmers art




Which kind of proves my point in a way, because it shows that even programmers can make good full games if they keep the art things simple. You are a pretty good designer and your projects prove that and yes off course that's important. But really a programmer that can't design games probably is better of in a team anyways, which again proves my point.

My main point of all this is, why focus on highlighting the weakness of a team and weakness of a game or weakness of an engine for that matter, when you better could try to compensate with other qualities and show the strengths instead? I seriously do not understand why people would even want to make a 'Doom4' like game with this engine. Parts of it may actually be possible, but somewhere along the way such projects usually will fail, if only because the engine isn't up to the task.

A good showcase demo or techdemo for this engine simply doesn't look like a room filled with only shaders and fancy high-poly graphics running at barely 20fps if you're lucky and not at all if you are not.

I think shaders can compliment a game a lot, as the recent "Resources" demo shows, but that game is already good without those fancy shaders...

Quote:

All these things are nice suggestions, though, the engine is not capable to demonstrate only one of these in a superb quality - out of the box. Period.




Finally someone with a more realistic view.

Quote:



I'd like to see something very clean which shows the features.. but also graphically stylized and not with programmer art (like that ghastly old demo for A6 with the clip-art bikini women tossing a beachball next to clip-art merlin doing excessively over the top particle effects).




Yes, but that wasn't programmer art (or was it? I did see some actual brush strokes), it's just all very old. Anyways, I do agree that if you want to make something truly graphically impressive to showcase the engine that you would need better models and textures. Obviously because the old ones are way too outdated.

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

For more info visit: Innervision Software
Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: PHeMoX] #182484
02/10/08 05:54
02/10/08 05:54
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Nems Offline

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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
Well, the biggest problem with dev work here is that most are trying to develop useing 'default out of the box' features, thats ok if you just want to prototype but not for actually making a game or a demo.

Scene management is very rarely used which is essential in serious project as is game design in general, i.e. dont saturate a demo with shaders, use it sparingly and only where it adds to the Demo/Game atmosphere.

Then there is personality issues where too many read emotional context into posts and subsequently catagorises the poster as a dislikable person or fear contact with them for other reasons

TeamWork is getting a job done without emotional baggage just to get the job done.

Dont ask Conetic to make these feature Demos and Games, actually formulate a team going by all the posts here then follow thru with the dev process.
Conitec doesnt have to do this as their competition does it all for them

Youve got the tools, youve got the potential here so just do it!

Given the amount of senior members and the talent they all express I wonder why this has never eventuated.

You dont need a 'strong' leader, you just need the will to actually engage yourselves, thats all

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: Nems] #182485
02/10/08 07:22
02/10/08 07:22
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 197
sebcrea Offline
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Posts: 197
The one thing that is done here I call "discussing it to death", actually the engine has alot of problems with graphics. And thats the reason why artist are not willing to spend time on a high res and low res model(the whole process), well knowing that the engine doesn't reward all that hard work with great lightning.

Of course you can say we bake the lighting but actually this has nothing to do with engine features. I jumped off using acknex last year because as an artist I want to have real lighting features in my artwork.

But I think Conitec should make a deal with the community, they get a complete new engine demo and Conitec implements new features (lighting) otherwise I see no reason to advertise an engine well knowing that its so poor when it comes to graphic features.

But in the end if you want to do a techdemo than do it and get the job done because for a first prototype you just need programmers/designers and at least one manager (no programmer or designer a person that oversees the development).

sebcrea out ...

Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see? [Re: Nems] #182486
02/10/08 09:10
02/10/08 09:10
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
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HeelX Offline
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HeelX  Offline
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Posts: 6,904
Quote:

Well, the biggest problem with dev work here is that most are trying to develop useing 'default out of the box' features, thats ok if you just want to prototype but not for actually making a game or a demo.




Right. Though, when you make an engine demo which uses heavily plugins to improve rendering, audio and so on.. tell me: where is the point?

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