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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: JetpackMonkey]
#182477
02/09/08 14:44
02/09/08 14:44
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
FBL
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,859
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- showing the capabilities of the scripting language: not just games but things like a music player or some sort of xml parser (or similar) to show that the whole system is really flexible - demos of different genres - management of large scenes (terrain with grass and/or many objects) - demonstration of physics engine - Multiplayer application - eye candy like shaders, normal mapping, lighting, particles and more - Different ways of using framed models, boned models, sprites and map entities, maybe also prefabs. Showing the usage of mesh, model, blocks. some sort of workshop showing the same scenes with different approaches and then show pros and cons of each way.
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: FBL]
#182478
02/09/08 16:24
02/09/08 16:24
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012 germany, dresden
ulf
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,012
germany, dresden
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i would like to see some sort of chain reaction thing! imagine at the beginning you have a brick falling down starting the reaction, then the camera slowly moves along a room and follows the reaction... think of stuff like dominos falling down, forming cool pictures, things falling in a water with a cool watershader producing waves... you could go on and leave the scene like in "animal race" and continue the chain reaction outdoors with waving grass...
something like this, with shaders, lots of stuff moving utilizing physics so its different everytime you watch it.
or even more interactive do it blackandwhite style, your some kind of god in a room with theese chain reaction ready settings, you can drop stuff to initiate it. have people running around wich you can drag and drop too...
possibilities are endless... if you do it with shadows, shaders and so on this will bring the engine to its knees an show what its capable of...
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: FBL]
#182479
02/09/08 19:42
02/09/08 19:42
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
HeelX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
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Quote:
- showing the capabilities of the scripting language: not just games but things like a music player or some sort of xml parser (or similar) to show that the whole system is really flexible - demos of different genres - management of large scenes (terrain with grass and/or many objects) - demonstration of physics engine - Multiplayer application - eye candy like shaders, normal mapping, lighting, particles and more - Different ways of using framed models, boned models, sprites and map entities, maybe also prefabs. Showing the usage of mesh, model, blocks. some sort of workshop showing the same scenes with different approaches and then show pros and cons of each way.
All these things are nice suggestions, though, the engine is not capable to demonstrate only one of these in a superb quality - out of the box. Period.
Even the simple "mediaplayer" application isn't doable without extending the engine by an own plugin. We cannot take Gamestudio as "black-box" with the premise that everything is doable. It is developed breadthwise. You have to take that into account.
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: FBL]
#182481
02/09/08 23:09
02/09/08 23:09
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
HeelX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: HeelX]
#182483
02/09/08 23:33
02/09/08 23:33
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177 Netherlands
PHeMoX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
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Hey, such a style also requires talented people. You can do single things "with style" and also games "with style" but the gap between these two points is big.
I agree that coming up with a certain "style" to a game may require designer talent, but I do not agree that vector-ish graphics require much artistic talent! People focus way way way too much on nice 3D "next-gen" graphics over here and too much on shaders thinking those are necessary to make good looking (or fun) games.
Look at games that use simple squares, circles and so on. Why aren't there more games like Inago Rage? Last I heard it was a pretty successful game. I'm by no means saying that making that game was easy. I'm only saying it doesn't make sense for a programmer to focus heavily on art if they aren't able to really make good looking art. Hence why I think good teams are a more important factor for a project's success anyways.
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BTW, RUDIs art is actually programmers art
Which kind of proves my point in a way, because it shows that even programmers can make good full games if they keep the art things simple. You are a pretty good designer and your projects prove that and yes off course that's important. But really a programmer that can't design games probably is better of in a team anyways, which again proves my point.
My main point of all this is, why focus on highlighting the weakness of a team and weakness of a game or weakness of an engine for that matter, when you better could try to compensate with other qualities and show the strengths instead? I seriously do not understand why people would even want to make a 'Doom4' like game with this engine. Parts of it may actually be possible, but somewhere along the way such projects usually will fail, if only because the engine isn't up to the task.
A good showcase demo or techdemo for this engine simply doesn't look like a room filled with only shaders and fancy high-poly graphics running at barely 20fps if you're lucky and not at all if you are not.
I think shaders can compliment a game a lot, as the recent "Resources" demo shows, but that game is already good without those fancy shaders...
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All these things are nice suggestions, though, the engine is not capable to demonstrate only one of these in a superb quality - out of the box. Period.
Finally someone with a more realistic view. 
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I'd like to see something very clean which shows the features.. but also graphically stylized and not with programmer art (like that ghastly old demo for A6 with the clip-art bikini women tossing a beachball next to clip-art merlin doing excessively over the top particle effects).
Yes, but that wasn't programmer art (or was it? I did see some actual brush strokes), it's just all very old. Anyways, I do agree that if you want to make something truly graphically impressive to showcase the engine that you would need better models and textures. Obviously because the old ones are way too outdated.
Cheers
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: PHeMoX]
#182484
02/10/08 05:54
02/10/08 05:54
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264 Wellington
Nems

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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,264
Wellington
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Well, the biggest problem with dev work here is that most are trying to develop useing 'default out of the box' features, thats ok if you just want to prototype but not for actually making a game or a demo. Scene management is very rarely used which is essential in serious project as is game design in general, i.e. dont saturate a demo with shaders, use it sparingly and only where it adds to the Demo/Game atmosphere. Then there is personality issues where too many read emotional context into posts and subsequently catagorises the poster as a dislikable person or fear contact with them for other reasons  TeamWork is getting a job done without emotional baggage just to get the job done. Dont ask Conetic to make these feature Demos and Games, actually formulate a team going by all the posts here then follow thru with the dev process. Conitec doesnt have to do this as their competition does it all for them  Youve got the tools, youve got the potential here so just do it! Given the amount of senior members and the talent they all express I wonder why this has never eventuated. You dont need a 'strong' leader, you just need the will to actually engage yourselves, thats all 
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Re: 3DGS demo's, what would you like to see?
[Re: Nems]
#182486
02/10/08 09:10
02/10/08 09:10
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
HeelX
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,904
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Quote:
Well, the biggest problem with dev work here is that most are trying to develop useing 'default out of the box' features, thats ok if you just want to prototype but not for actually making a game or a demo.
Right. Though, when you make an engine demo which uses heavily plugins to improve rendering, audio and so on.. tell me: where is the point?
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