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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: Pappenheimer]
#184108
02/16/08 14:39
02/16/08 14:39
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,032
Croatia
croman
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,032
Croatia
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Well Slin, you are right. It is possible to have around 10k poys on screen, but to have 10k polygons on little slower pc's isn't good and I believe that he's not aiming on powerfull pc's only. Those 10k polys are possible to have in such type of game but not in rts or rpg game where couple of hundreds or even thousands of characters are rendered in one frame.
Ofcours, that can be talked about alot, so to cut short: Ask your client about his poly count wishes before you start modeling because it can be hard to decrease poly count after character is finished. If your client has no complaints about this model then you have nothing to worry about.
Nice work BTW.
Ubi bene, ibi Patria.
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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: croman]
#184109
02/16/08 15:02
02/16/08 15:02
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
msl_manni
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
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Very nice model. Think it will be used for highend syatems. Quote:
Ofcours, that can be talked about alot, so to cut short: Ask your client about his poly count wishes before you start modeling because it can be hard to decrease poly count after character is finished.
Well it is very easy for me to decrease the polycount  . I have mastered the art of decreasing the polycount keeping the prefered geometry and original textures intact. Any high polycount model can be hand converted into desired number of polies. In this case I see an optimised model of about 1700 polies will be achievable keeping the original geometry and textures intact. Contact me if you need any help there.
Last edited by msl_manni; 02/16/08 15:21.
My Specialities Limited.
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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: msl_manni]
#184110
02/16/08 15:36
02/16/08 15:36
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
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Overall, this is a nice model (from what I can see from the fairly small screen shot). However, I also agree that it is too many polygons. The reason I am saying it is too many polygons is because it seems there should be more details and a more clearly defined shape for a human model in that polygon range. For example, look at how square the shoulders are (the obvious points that are there). In a humanoid model with over 5000 polygons this should not be so obvious. I have models with about 1200 polygons that look just about as detailed (of course, it is very difficult to compare because, with such a small screen shot, it is hard to see how detailed areas like the shoes are, etc).
The last concern, not having seen the wireframe, is how well will this model animate. Whether the poly count is 500 or 50,000, none of it matters much if it does not deform properly.
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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: msl_manni]
#184112
02/16/08 15:51
02/16/08 15:51
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,032
Croatia
croman
Serious User
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Serious User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,032
Croatia
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@msl_manni - I pmed you for second time and I added you on msn. Do you use it and have you received my pm's?
Sorry for off topic.
Ubi bene, ibi Patria.
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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: Blattsalat]
#184114
02/16/08 16:35
02/16/08 16:35
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
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Quote:
Well as I have already said, and dont want to beat the trumpet, The desired poly loops and vertex geometry can be achieved even after completing a base model, before animating it finally .
Who is talking about a base model here? The model shown is completed in that it is modeled, UV mapped and textured. If you start adding vertices, edges and faces to improve how the model will deform when animated, then you run the risk of totally destroying the UV map and having to do that all over again which, in turn, may cause you to have to adjust or re-do the texture map as well. At this stage in the game, the model has to be "right" or else there is a lot of re-work to be done. This is what I was talking about when mentioning about how well it will animate. My concern is basically this: if the model is using 5000+ polys, looks like a model with a lower poly count (1200 - 2000 poly range) then where are all the other polys? And could these "other" polygons interfere with the deformation of the model making it harder to animate? I mean, I can open up ZBrush, load in a 100,000 polygonal sphere and sculpt away until I get a decent looking humanoid model, but the flow of polygons would be all wrong and it would animate poorly.
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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: Dan Silverman]
#184115
02/16/08 17:06
02/16/08 17:06
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
msl_manni
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
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Quote:
Quote:
Well as I have already said, and dont want to beat the trumpet, The desired poly loops and vertex geometry can be achieved even after completing a base model, before animating it finally .
Who is talking about a base model here? The model shown is completed in that it is modeled, UV mapped and textured. If you start adding vertices, edges and faces to improve how the model will deform when animated, then you run the risk of totally destroying the UV map and having to do that all over again which, in turn, may cause you to have to adjust or re-do the texture map as well. At this stage in the game, the model has to be "right" or else there is a lot of re-work to be done. This is what I was talking about when mentioning about how well it will animate. My concern is basically this: if the model is using 5000+ polys, looks like a model with a lower poly count (1200 - 2000 poly range) then where are all the other polys? And could these "other" polygons interfere with the deformation of the model making it harder to animate? I mean, I can open up ZBrush, load in a 100,000 polygonal sphere and sculpt away until I get a decent looking humanoid model, but the flow of polygons would be all wrong and it would animate poorly.
It does not matters for me to reduce polycounts of any highpoly model. The textures wont be destroyed and geometry would be almost exact as the original model. I am not going to do any retexturing or like that. If you are using and have already applied a bip on the model then that can be taken care of. I can re-loop or adjust the polygons while keeping the underlying textures intact. There is absolutely nod need for any re-work. If the model is not animating then the polygons and edges will be adjusted so that they can animate properly. I can convert any high poly model into a lowpoly model and still take care that no degradation takes place or there is no need for re-work.
Quote:
but the flow of polygons would be all wrong and it would animate poorly.
I will re-layout the polygons and so all the problems that you mention are nothing for me. But that has to be done as an extra step and you can guess what I am offering/expecting  .
My Specialities Limited.
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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: msl_manni]
#184116
02/16/08 17:17
02/16/08 17:17
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman
Senior Expert
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Senior Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
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Well, you keep saying that this is "no problem" and the like, but it simply is not so. If the model is already animated and you change the vertex number order in any manner or add/delete vertices then you have a bit of a mess and have to do a bit of re-work to get the model re-animated.
In most cases, adding/deleting geometry (such as adding edge loops, etc) will mess up the UV map (portions or perhaps the entire thing) and force you to rework portions of the UV map.
Reducing the polygon count on a higher polygonal model is not difficult. I do it frequently. However, it is a bit of work in that it is not just the geometry that you have to work with but, as talked about previously, the UV map and, if the model is animated, the animation as well. Yes, there are tools out there to help, but in most cases, even with these tools, you have to do some hand tweaking.
In any case, you are missing the point (I believe). All I am saying is that there are a lot of unknowns about this model. It has a mid-range poly count but looks like a low-poly model. It has a decent sized skin (1024 x 1024), but it looks like a model with a 512 x 512 skin. Because all we can see are the textured shots, we cannot see the wires and therefore we don't know how well the model is constructed.
Yes, I could re-do the topology. Yes, I could rather quickly do a new UV from scratch (it would really only take a few minutes). None of this is the point. The best way to model is to get it right from the start. He showed the model here and I brought up my concerns. That is all. Whatever you can do with a high-poly model, etc, is of no concern to this thread.
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Re: Athlete Model
[Re: Dan Silverman]
#184117
02/16/08 17:31
02/16/08 17:31
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
msl_manni
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 478
India
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Well I am unable to satisfy you.
1. No need for re UV-mapping.
2. No need for Re-vertex generation.
3. No need for adding edge-loops.
4. If you are using a bone or bip animation and have them handy then no need for reanimating.
All these things will be done in a single step by hand. Without using any software or redoing anything. If you are not understading then yet then I am sorry to say that I fail to put forward my speciality.
I have already offered my services if the concerned party needs my help. Other than that I cant do anything to convience you.
My Specialities Limited.
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