Xarthor:
Yes. You are absolutely right, with almost all. Yes, some insults turned this thread into Kindergarten. But now through the help of users like you, fogman or spike this became better again.

You misunderstood one point though: I don't want you to create this level with real-time shadows. If it looks the same with static ones then I would be impressed as well.

But you are right I also mentioned the real-time shadows. This is a good feature. But it came up as Phemox started to compare sphere with A7.

Nevertheless I think this is a a very important feature today.

What's stopping you? As far as geometry goes, this is definitely possible with A7...

No. I tried it. I imported static geometry in WED and compiled some shadows and it is a mess.
Some free tools like IrrEdit do it without any problems though. Torque Constructor also can read my machines and render static shadow on top. I made a few images to show that in different forums like here:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=488848

But normal-mapping on top of this would be even better.

Ok , lets put this into perpective. There are a lot of tin heads here who are saying that adding shaders with gamestudio and all that other nice stuff me , frank and a couple others are asking for is cake , that it's only a couple of lines of code here and there. Well , please prove us wrong , I would be happy to have you people create a torque type shader interface for gamestudio , with support for all the base shaders that work on a wide range of video cards , with shader fallback for shader 3,2,and 1 , and if possible even to fallback to no shader and just model and diffuse texture if the card doesnt have shaders. And have this awesome system integrate into gamestudio , shaders and the like throw gui system and save settings on the click of a button. This , is , according to you all , only a couple of lines of code here and there , then why not provide us with this couple of lines of code since your all programmers and thats what you do ?

Every single plugin for Gamestudio that has been done , from sphere , to InstenseX , to the ingame edit tool , have taken have taken months , and some even over a year to code , and all have had bugs here and there and havnt really been fully stable plugins. It seems like it's a TON of work to make this plugins , they're not cake , and they've usually been done by the best programmers we have in our community. Considering this , I think you can now begin to see why we consider this engine/tool features so important , they require major programming and a lot of time and effort , it's not something you can code in a weekend and continue on with your project. We go back to , well , why not just code the whole engine from scratch ? If we are going to code all that other stuff , we might as well just code the whole engine ? Why are any programmers even using gamestudio ? Thats a joke , if your a programmers there's much better alternatives , in fact , if your a programmer i dont even know why u need a premade engine advertised as " make games with no programming" LOL.

I'm personally looking for a program that will allow me to make my projects with the least amount of technical problems , the more the software can handle on it's side the better . Now some years ago Gamestudio was the best option available , it had a powerfull yet simple scripting language , and it's editors were pretty up to date, it was in fact much easier to work with than torque. The problem is , as time has passed , engines like torque have started raising the bar , adding many new features , and improving their editors , making their software take care of most of the complicated technical programming in the background while the user can worry about their projects design , art and the like. This engines are really geared towards the indie developer , and most indies dont have studios with programmers who can take care of all the complicated stuff , so , the simpler things are , the more features integrated out of the box , the better , since then we can focus and making our games , which is the reason people like me and many indies purchase this all in 1 game development studio , so we wont have to worry about the engine , and can focus on the game. I hope I have gotten my point across to the programmers , who dont seem to understand what me and a couple of others are saying , and again , I will be waiting for that cool shader tool , since you all keep saying how easy it is to implement the shaders for A7 , please to prove us wrong and give us that very simple and easy to make tool that would be incredibly usefull to most of the gamestudio community. If you cant do it , then realise your wrong , and stop with the nonsense.

Can you show us the results?

By the way, did you also try not importing static geometry, but instead make a level in WED yourself? Perhaps you failed simply because it didn't import properly?

Ill make one why do i die..

right along with the make AAA game button, and the add BLUUUM button, and lets nto forget the mmo click together gui, cant forget that..... wait, why dont we just have conitec make the games for us, since we want our shaders built in, why dont we just have the whole game build in, and all you have to do is take credit for it :P YAY!

one issue with that.... thats not how games are made. When making a game, YOU CHOOSE what shaders to put in and YOU implement them the way YOU seem fit. As far as sphere and intense x go, they are much more than simple shaders to implement in your game (and btw bloom, normal mapping, detail mapping, and reflective water all are)

Sphere is a whole graphics engine rewrite. Matt wrote his own dx renderer for it, so its just not simply "some shaders"

IntenseX.... hmmmm who woulda thought that a program that allows you to build a game with an incredibly easy interface would take 6months to a year to finish.... especially when most games take a year or more to finish.... what a surprise.

Think about it for a second, people have this notion that just because we use an indie engine that things shouldnt take as long as the big games take to make but really its just the opposite. Do you really think if someone put as much effort into making a game as the AAA people do that it wouldnt look nice an A7. No, its just no one has the motivation to stick with a project and as indies we dont have the freedom to spend 8 months to 2 years on one project since we dont get paid as we go. Thats why all our games look like shit, not because of the game engine we use.

Stop whining like a little kid.

"Stop whining like a little kid."
Right after you stop being a retard.
"Ill make one why do i die..
right along with the make AAA game button, and the add BLUUUM button, and lets nto forget the mmo click together gui, cant forget that..... "
Well the point is that , Torque ALREADY HAS that, it has the shader editor , it supports shaders and fallbacks , it has bloom , it has ingame terrain editing (actually had it for a long time already) , Has better templates than gamestudio , better content packs , better engine versions , even a 2d version of the engine for the casual game developers , ability to publish for pc and mac , soon xbox 360 version of the engine to make games for 360. There's just so many places where gamestudio is falling behind , and thats the point. Torque is actually cheaper than gamestudio , more advanced , and it includes the source code. This is coming from someone who hated Torque and always praised gamestudio over it, but that was before torque brought out it's scripting language , and all of the above mentioned improvements. It's incredible how many people here dont get the point , making it sound like we're lazy and dont wanna do things ourselves , we're indies man , i pretty much work on things single handed , i do my own modeling , level design , texturing , scripting , and game design , I dont have time to create the development interface , thats why I PURCHASED one instead. In the long run , Conitec is only hurting itself , cuz as I stated before , nowadays , who in their right mind would choose gamestudio over torque ? There just so many more possibilities over at garagegames , one would have to be a fool to come here.

I couldn't agree more with you, besides if Torque really is this great (and I'm sure it is, trust me ), then why don't we ever see Torque-made games by the people that complain? Ow wait, this probably means Torque sucks too??

As I've said before and I'll continue to say this regardless of how many 'games' people have or have not made, these people really have other problems. In fact, why didn't some of them switch engines if they truly believe 3dgs is "crap"? I don't want to discuss this any further actually, because a lot of it simply doesn't seem to make much sense. Apart from that, there's more you can do with any 3D engine than just trying to emulate Doom3 or Gears of War. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I am saying however that any comparison between 3dgs and Gears of War (mind you that's the Unreal 3 engine we are talking about) is... completely insane basically.

Well PHeMoX , maybe thats because you've missed the whole point of the conversation. And I've never been the "gamestudio sucks" type , in fact ,the complete opposite, but I'd have to be blind not to see the differences between the current gamestudio and torque versions , it's like the torque people logged into the gamestudio forums , read the user requested features , and added them to torque , while the conitec people just had a good laugh and completely ignored them.

I have been using Game Studio since A3, And I can tell you these same discussions took place back then.
The Truth is Game Studio has been in a lot worse situations, IMO. Game Studio is actually on the right track. Plus we have the greatest community in the Indy world. Either way, the "Make Game" button is actually going to be revealed this month For Game Studio, Not Torque