Heres a little something to go over....

From NZHerald.co.nz, science tab.

It is not everyday that someone's name becomes inextricably linked with God. But it is not everyday that someone comes up with a theory that could help to unify the many disparate forces of the universe.

All the more strange, then, for the man behind the sub-atomic "God particle" to be an unassuming grandfather living in modest retirement in one of the more sedate districts of Edinburgh.

Professor Peter Higgs, 78, is a theoretical particle physicist, and it took him 20 years before he could even bring himself to call the God particle by its more scientific name - the Higgs boson. Up to that point, he preferred the more prosaic term, "scalar boson".

He still squirms when people refer to it by the deified moniker coined many years ago by a colleague. He first formulated the theory behind the sub-atomic particle named after him in the 1960s, and for almost half a century it has remained as elusive as stardust. That could all change later this year, however, when one of the world's biggest experiments is switched on deep beneath the Alpine meadows on the Franco-Swiss border, the home of the European Centre for Nuclear Research (Cern) near Geneva.

Within a 27km-long, underground ring, atom will be smashed into atom at something approaching the speed of light. The machine, called the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), is designed to produce energy levels expected to be powerful enough to shake out the elusive Higgs boson from its seemingly inescapable prison within the atomic nucleus.

The Higgs is just one of the discoveries that the LHC is expected to make. The team of physicists behind the project believes the LHC will produce a jewel box of discoveries that will light up the infinitesimally small world of sub-atomic physics.

"The actual discovery of the Higgs boson, if it happens, is only one part of the programme. There is vastly more for the machine to do," Professor Higgs said.

"I'm most excited, for instance, about the possible identification of super-symmetry particles - symmetrical particles of the particles we already know."

Super-symmetry refers to the "grand dance" of particles in the universe. We know about a dozen sub-atomic particles, with exotic names such as quark, lepton and neutrino. Yet for every kind of particle, there may a super-symmetrical partner.

The trouble is, we can only see one of the partners in each dancing couple, with the "significant others" remaining invisible.

If super-symmetry is confirmed by the LHC it will help scientists towards the ultimate goal of a unified theory for the fundamental forces of nature - in particular the force of gravity which so far lies outside the realm of the forces known at the quantum level of the sub-atomic particle.


"The reason it's exciting is that I'm interested in a unified theory of forces, in particular quantum gravity," Professor Higgs said.

Although long retired from research, he still possesses a child-like wonder of the world which we cannot see but which is so critical to some of the most important questions at the centre of our understanding of creation, the universe and the end of time.

Professor Higgs spent much of the weekend seeing the LHC for the first time, before it is sealed in preparation for the switch-on in a few months.

"The sheer scale of the detectors is overwhelming. It's far more impressive than anything you get out of photographs," he said.

The detectors in question are four huge underground instruments, some as big as a gothic cathedral, which will act as microscopes to identify a Higgs particle in the fraction of a split second it takes to make an appearance before it disappears.

Professor Higgs said he is 90 per cent certain the LHC will find his particle when it reaches its full working potential, perhaps in a year's time. If the machine does find the Higgs, it will cap an extraordinary career for the mathematician, given he first proposed the idea more than 40 years ago as a young theoretical physicist at the University of Edinburgh.

It will also solve one of the most pressing problems in science because the Higgs boson lies at the heart of matter itself. In particular it is supposed to explain why objects have mass and while some phenomena - such as light - do not.

Professor Higgs was the first to propose the theory that the reason why objects have mass is because they interact with an invisible field, now called the Higgs field. Heavier particles interact more strongly, whereas photons (light particles) do not interact at all. Without this Higgs field, everything - from proton to planet - would be as insubstantial as a light beam.

When Higgs first came up with the idea, few people took him seriously and even the then editor of a leading physics journal - who was based at Cern - thought it was too conjectural to be published.

"At the time I started this work, it was rather an unfashionable thing to be interested in, certainly on this side of the Atlantic ... my colleagues thought I was a bit of an idiot," Professor Higgs recalled.

Four decades later, Cern is in pole position in the race to be first to find the Higgs although its advantage has been eroded. The LHC should have opened three years ago but, as with all big engineering and construction projects, it was dogged by delays.

Meanwhile, another atom smasher at the Fermi Laboratory in the United States may have come close to solving the problem. Professor Higgs said the Fermi Lab scientists may have already done it, but may not yet be in a position to prove it because the critical evidence may still be locked up in data obscured by background noise.

But time is running out for the Fermi Lab as the giant, supercooled magnets at the LHC are prepared for their task.

The amount of supercooling involved is stupendous - when it is fully operational, the LHC will be the coldest place in the known universe.



The immense energies involved in making the atomic collisions happen have already generated unwelcome publicity for the LHC.

Some scientists have suggested that they may generate mini black holes, which have led others to suggest that these black holes could somehow merge to form a larger, destructive entity that could swallow up the entire earth.

"The black hole business has become rather inflated," said Professor Higgs, irritated by the suggestion that the LHC could become an unwitting doomsday machine.

"Even the theorists who are suggesting that mini-black holes are things that could be produced are not predicting black holes large enough to swallow up chunks of the universe. I think the publicity has rather got out of hand and some people have misunderstood it."

Hysteria aside, Professor Higgs seemed pleased that so many people outside the rarefied world of particle physics and cosmology are taking an interest in what will happen at Cern.

He is certain that something awesome is about to happen. .

"I'd be very puzzled if it wasn't discovered ... If you don't have something like a Higgs boson ... if it's not that, what the hell is it?

"If it's not found, I no longer understand what I think I understand," he said.

And if it is found? "I shall open a bottle of something."

SEARCH ENGINE

* Scientists are searching for sub-atomic particles using an underground accelerator called the Large Hadron Collider (LHC).

* By smashing particles together at near light-speed in the $2 billion laboratory researchers aim to simulate conditions at the time of the Big Bang 15 billion years ago.

* The machine is designed to produce energy levels powerful enough to shake out the elusive Higgs field - an invisible force which gives mass to the universe and makes life possible - as first argued by physicist Peter Higgs 40 years ago.

Sorry Joey for my bad calculation and my bad english too
It was a "quicky"- calculation to demonstrate what i mean.
And i think it doesnt matter how much "0" there are (20 or 21).
I multilplied it with 1,4 because a sun must have the the weight of our sun multiplied with 1,4. Our sun is to "small" to becomes a black hole.
And i didn't have the right pocket-calculator to calculate a bigger number
... so please forget the calculation in detail.
And black - they say black because they dont know if this exist or how it exist. It is not a color - its only an expression. Oh and about the tons....
calculate this: tons is an expression of energie -> what are you learning in school -> (tons*1.000)/9,81


In real... i do not care about this theme. We cant change what the scientist wanna do or what cind of experiments they do. I am more afraid of an asteroid, or an terrorist. So this is my last post to this theme.

Your in right Joey - we dont know about this physics, you also dont know about and the scientist only wanna know how it all works.

So have a nice day, and dont cry if the black hole get us

Actually, this is an excellent way to view every scientific experiment. It's just that in an experiment, the scientist has some control over the odds and while no new experiment is 100% certain, it's petty darn close.


So to the dooms dayers I present the following:
Is it "impossible" that something terrible will happen at the LHC? No. Nature is a bitch goddess and always has nasty surprises up her sleeve (just ask Madam Curie).
Is it "probable" then? No. All the theories and evidence point away from it.


To put it in perspective:
Is it "impossible" that something terrible will happen in your bedroom tonight? No. There are a number of deadly and harmful things that can happen in your bedroom any and every night.
Is it "probable" then? No. You've taken every measure to ensure that the bedroom is isolated and safe from harm.

Hence, if you want to stop the LHC, then I suggest you also not walk into your bedroom at night!




Here in the USA, that month is February... it's even designated "National Black History month" in honor of BHs everywhere...

From what I heard from a man who studied physics and astronomy for years (but doesn't keep track anymore to the newest inventions that much), he says that it's close to impossible for a mini black hole to swallow the earth in 15 years.

A mini black hole is so small that, when reaching the center of the earth, the atoms are way too far away for it to suck them up, and will decay for 100% certainty before it sucked enough matter to keep growing (this doesn't mean that it wont ever happen, but percentages can't have a floating point and must be rounded to the nearest round number )

So, I do believe he knows what he is talking about, and it sounds very very logical. I have my answer.

A theory is as close as ANYONE can get to knowledge. There is no "knowing" in the sense that you are using it. I can tell you all about Newton's Law, graviton, stress energy tensors, renormalization theory, the chandrashekar limit ofthe blackhole formation, and Hawking radiation... But I fear that would not be enough for you.

Newton knew why gravity occurred; Einstein expanded it. It is a theory but a theory which held up for hundreds of years... That at the close to truth. In any of us are going to get.



This is strictly false among the scientific community. Among these people, people that have dedicated their entire lives to the subject, there is a singular view of mass gravity and is globally accepted.

Among the nonscientific community however I agree. These are people that spend maybe a few hours every week on the Internet or at the library, and yeah they have a thousand theory, all contradictory, all with no evidence.



Relativity is no more lacking the Newton laws were... they may be amended when new knowledge comes to light, but within the confines of the regime they applicable, it is one hundred percent accurate.

Of course, I'm always up for new knowledge. If you would present me where relativity is lacking, we can discuss this at length. But lacking that evidence, I will presume that you are merely the victim of hearsay and don't actually believe that relativity is broken.




I've met Professor Higgs and talked at length with him. He never once stated that the Standard model is wrong, merely that there are unanswered questions of which every scientist is aware. Need I remind you that this is exactly what happened with Newton's laws and Einstein... something "didn't add up" and it lead to new physics. Hence, as Progessor Higgs state, something doesn't add up in the SM and this will lead to new physic, but not invalidate the standard model out right.



A problem? It is what is is... we're cool with it!




What causes mass? Right there you are proving that your research is flawed. Mass isn't caused by anything. Causeing is a dynamic effect; mass is static.

What creates mass? That is a valid question and we know that the answer is energy from the Big Bang coalessing into hydrogen atoms and these H atoms are cooked and processed by stellar forces to make all the other elements.

As to what causes gravity, I ask you directly: what kind of proof would YOU need to prove anything? I don't believe this exist, because as I said above, you do not have a solid understanding a theory versus knowledge versus truth and that you yourself do not know what proof you need.



I am more than happy to put up my research credentials on this matter next yours. But I don't think a lack of research is at issue here but rather a poor understanding of the fundamental physics terms that you are using to make your assertion. If you truly understood the scientific method, theory, hypothesis... if you understood the scientific use of the word model, knowledge, experiment, and regime of applicability, you would know the fact that there is no physicists that knows any truths nor claims to; rather we claim only to know strong probabilities of behavior based on past observation and then we make testable predictions based on these probabilities and past observation.

As to the LHC, there we have THEORIES based on CENTURIES OF PAST OBSERVATION that tell us that the experiment is SAFE. There is always the chance for unpredicatble bahaivour such as WORM-HOLES, BLACK-HOLES, OR ASS-HOLES being created in the experiment, but these are so low probability as to be negligable and not worth considering (see my "bedroom" example above).

WHY_DO_I_DIE,
BTW, if the LHC turns on and nothing happens, does that mean you are wrong, Why, or is there another explanation for why we are still alive? I just want to make sure we are clear on this... that if the LHC is turned on and no BH, then your basic assertions (or belief in others assertions) is wrong, right? If not, then you would have to have a reason why the LHC is on and no BH.

Fastelane, you are making my day bashing why_do_i_die..

Thanks!

Well, it would take a few years before we will notice something is eating the earth from the inside, so I suggest to come back here some time later to fight out who won :P.

"Lecturing" perhaps... not bashing. I think the problem is that some people actually want this idiotic doomsday theory to be true.... I wonder why.

Well if it turns on and nothing happens of course I would be wrong , and very happy to be wrong , and looking forward to what the lhc finds.
"Newton knew why gravity occurred" , No he didnt , and thats a fact , thats where einstein came in with relativity , newton however, understood gravity and how it affected everything in the world. But we are still babies when it comes to knowledge and technology , many of us seem to forget we've only had electricity for a couple hundred years . We know very little , and most is observation , and theory , just like the bosson higgs , as said in a previous post , his fellow physisists laughed at the idea of it in the begining. And to this day there is zero evidence of it , as in fact , it's something that guy thought up.
Here is his statement
"I'd be very puzzled if it wasn't discovered ... If you don't have something like a Higgs boson ... if it's not that, what the hell is it?
"If it's not found, I no longer understand what I think I understand,"
Did you read that , thats statement means that he might not understand anything, since he believes the bosson higgs exists while it might not and things might be completely different than whats understood and accepted right now. So dont talk like you really know what your talking about fasstlane , Higgs himself admitted he might not know what he talks about.

I think this thread could maybe be moved to "Hilbert" where such discussion belongs better. Anyway here is my 2 c.

I think physicists do not understand gravity at all, but that is not their job. Only God can understand gravity. But Physicists understand how gravity behaves which is not the same as understanding gravity. But they can describe and predict it very precisely.

Thats why they made experiments, for finding out how something behaves. Thats what they are very good in. Of course there can always be surprises in physics, but destroying the world with the large hadron collider is very unlikely. But there were always people who warned of such experiments, for instance there were warnings that landing on the moon could cause the rocket to collide with an invisible sphere between earth and moon and destroy the world.

So we must apply some common sense for judging the dangers and advantages of experiments. Finding the higgs boson is important and an earth eating black hole is extremely unlikely, so I say: Go LHC go!