True, I had forgot about how the restrictions here on earth might not need to be the same for alien life to be able to exist.

I'm not arguing against you though. When you look at the universe as far as we know though, there are places that might support life like here on our planet... and we know this because we find the same or similar conditions like we have here.

That's the way we currently search, find the conditions and there might be a possibility that the planet supports life.

Yet, even finding nearly the exact same conditions isn't a guarantee for life elsewhere, we've figured out that much already.

my point exactly, the reason why we havent seen other lifeforms from other planets in our solar system is because the "rules" may be different in their solar system. i know this is going to sound crazy, but take superman....he lived on a planet whos red sun made him as normal as we are, but when exposed to our yellow sun, he became superhuman. i know that being fantasy, may not be what would happen, but maybe the other species could not survive. in the case of the "Gods" that were on the earth during the time of the Sumerians. It was said that they came from Planet X/ Niberu. This planet is the only planet in our solar system that revolves around the earth in an elliptical pattern, opposite from the the other planets, and exists in two solar systems. this planet, disrupted the earth thrice, which cause the first and second ice age and the flood of noah. travelling on a course in our solar system every 3,600 years. The way the story goes, our 3,600 years is equivalent to its 1 year, so to us the inhabitants of its planet seem "Godlike" because of their longer life span compared to ours. we must seem "Godlike" to dragonflies and other insects and animals, because of our lifespan compared to theirs, so the idea that a planet coming back into our solar system after 3,600 years with humanoid life forms is a bit un-nerving, but the ancient civilizations say its true. i am not sure i want to call them liars. they were here to see it first hand. Look in the old testament, of all the accounts, do some research.

And if that is the case and we are barely starting to understand OUR rules, what chances do we have to just stumble upon the right rules for some alien species?

Use your superman example. Suppose, early in his career, there were no photographs of him but plenty of "crazy" stories of rescue and daring. Let's now say that the government correctly assumes this is the work of an alien and decides to search the heaven for him. Now then, how would the government have stumbled upon the circumstances for Superman's civilization if it was so different from ours? How would we have known that it's the Red Dwarfs that theses aliens, these "supermen", exist? How could we have known of their crystal technology and how to communicate with it? The answer is we wouldn't. We'd be guessing.

Likewise, nothing about any of the UFO evidence points to ANY biological clues. There is no consistent gas emissions recorded (which would point to an atmosphere differential), there is no specific waveform recorded (which would point to a sun different than ours), nor has there been direct contact with the public (which would point to a different societal outlook towards aliens and first contact).

None of this exists as repeatable facts. Thus none of the current UFO evidence gives us any clue as to where our real "supermen" exist and thus we stick to what we know. This is why until we see a definite example of a different set of rules from somewhere else, we will concentrate on defining and predicting from the rules we have right here.

Actually that's a myth as there's no evidence for 'noah's flood' here on earth. The first ice age was caused because of a changing atmospheric composition (particularly the fraction of CO2 and methane). The planet Niberu or whatever it's called wasn't in the vicinity of earth some 800 to 600 million years ago, so it can't have caused the ice age either. I don't know about the second ice age you are referring to, but it's probably the same story for that one...



There were no Gods on earth during the time of the Sumerians, instead they believed there were Gods on earth far before them in times of what the Sumer thought to have been the time of (their and earth's) creation.

There are no accounts where Sumer people talk about literally direct contact with their "Gods".

Well , one thing is , if there is water on earth , then there is possibility of water on a planet of any star, so , even searching for life similar to ours , it's still a HUGE MASSIVE MEGA chance of it existing everywhere in the universe. The biggest problem is , we cant see it , because stars are too far from us. So , lets say there is a big thriving civilization similar to ours in one of our close stars , we cant see it , they could be having a parade and we would be 100% unaware of it. The only reason we see stars is because they are so immensely bright, planets dont create light , we merely absorb and reflect it , so , if we cant even see the planets on the other stars (and if planet formation occurs as scientists believe it does , then there are planets on EVERY star) , then there is no way of knowing if there is life in any of them , that of course , doesnt mean there isnt , I'm very sure there is life on most stars , it only makes sense.

Just look at the big Mars mystery , it appears to have once been full of water having rivers and lakes everywhere , yet now we dont see any water , but it is assumed at one time it was full of water , which means , it might have been very similar to earth , and might have even sustained life , maybe even vast amounts of life , but if it did it's all gone now. So if Mars had water , and earth does , and one or 2 of saturn or jupiter's (I forget which) moons does , then water is not that rare a phenomena , it looks like it is a much more common thing than we once thought. So , I would say , we definately have a lot of neighbors , it only makes sense , wether you look at it from a religious or a scientific way , the chance of abundant life existing in the universe is vast. Just look at all the life that exists in ONE little planet , can you imagine the amount of life that exists in this whole universe ?

Why_do: Your first paragraph is a bit ridicolous, because we can infact see a lot of stars from earth, and those whose we don't see - because they are covered by nebula or whatsoever - we can see weith mirowave telescopes, or radiotelescopes, or x-ray telescopes. So theres plenty of things we can see. We even know where the center of our galaxy(not universe) is. So far, you are right about the planets, we can only assume where they might be by watching for a long long period of time.

But your second statement there is quite intresting. If water would actually really be a not so rare, but actually common - as there are hints of water on mars - and we would find some other traces on other planets/moons, then there would be a way higher chance of human or similar-to-human life existing in the universe.

Still, I belive that life does not exclusively has to evolve like here on earth.

I know, but you happened to use as an wild example the very element which would be least likely to be used for a water 'replacement'LOL

The polar molecules like water will tend to be lopsided in regards to electric charge, therefore they can lend themselves more readily to bonding via dipole-dipole bonding. Its going to be much more difficult to bond noble gases and otherwise 'symmetrical' molecules like o2 and atoms like helium unless we apply extremly high pressures and extremely low temperatures to create London dispersion forces which will cause them to bond only temporarily and instantaneously, but otherwise we can consider it impractical for them to bond.

The thing about water is that it has a unique bond which no other molecule possesses called hydrogen bonding which keeps the freezing point at 0 degrees celcius, if we take a noble gas like helium we would have to decrease the temperature to -268.785 C. Helium has the lowest melting point of all the elements. Maybe someone can tell us how far you would need to be from a heat source like our sun in order to reach such a temperature, I guess it would depend upon how much heat the particular star produces, and the following properties of any theoretical planet would need to be the same as earth.

1)The size and shape of the planet(any amount of sun would be hotter at the equator of the sphere, it would be colder and colder as it approaches the poles, depending upon how big the planet is that can be a fairly large temperature differential
2)The axis tilt of the planet. Like earth, if there is a particular tilt of the planet in respect to the sun then there would be differeing areas of concentration during different stages of the planets orbit.
3)rotation around axis, obvious 'day' temperature differentials
4)revolution around its star, obvious year temp differentials

As you can see there are a lot of factors to consider, I have just scratched a scratch on the surface.

Anyway, Im not arguing with you, just posting a knowledge dump in case anyone is interested in discussing what and or how life could exist without the conditions which we have.

They finally managed to get an 'image' of an exo-planet: http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/weltall/0,1518,525474,00.html (sorry its german)
and it seems that the planet (HD 189733b) even has water.
The laws of physic and chemistry are the same on every planet in the whole universe. So its likely that life on differents planets looks similiar to the life found on earth. Though, temperature, gravity and so on may differ.

Here's my AFAIK personal scientific insight:

There are a few things that water's unique properties contributed to life on Earth.

1) Triple Point: Water's Triple Point is within the temperature ranges of the Earth. Had the Earth's orbit and tilt been different and bumped us into a colder or warmer regime, we would not have the benefit of vapor, water, and liguid which undermines all macro-life on Earth.

2) 4 degree anomoly: due to the molecular structure of water and a "quirk" in the van-der-waal forces, water's density is greatest at 4 degrees and thus ice floats... which is critical for aquatic life.

3) Molecular Structure: as noted before, water is quite unique in being a universal solvent as well as it's bonding characteristics. This is another reason why a helium doesn't seem like a good replacement for water as it lacks the complex molecular behaiviour that leads to 1 and 2 above.

4) Material Abundence: all of the above doesn't matter if there isn't enough of this base material to go around. The high percentage of water to land surface area, leading to oceans, leading to atmosphere, is also critical in water's role in life. Once again, a single gas like Helium would be a bad candidate for water substitution since it is only abundent on gas giants (which makes all our rules of evolution suspect) and not on rocky planets (since it would evaporate away quickly).


So, if I were to look for "other" life on "other" planets, I would start this way:

1) What is the planets temperature range and are there any Triple Point molecules that we know of in that range?
2) If yes to 1, is that molecule found in abundence in the planet?
3) If yes to 2, what are the dynamics of this molecule precence in the planet (ie: what is it's "weather" system)?
4) If yes to 3, what are the molecular properties that would be relevant in this weather system?

And from Question 4 on out, we can start speculating on what our "other" lifeform would be like based upon the world-building exercise above.

"Why_do: Your first paragraph is a bit ridicolous, because we can infact see a lot of stars from earth, and those whose we don't see - because they are covered by nebula or whatsoever - we can see weith mirowave telescopes, or radiotelescopes, or x-ray telescopes. So theres plenty of things we can see. We even know where the center of our galaxy(not universe) is. So far, you are right about the planets, we can only assume where they might be by watching for a long long period of time."

I think you missed the point , i meant we cant see the life on other stars , because we cant see the planets that orbit the stars. I am aware we can see the stars , you just have to look up at night , and with hubble we have even seen the amount of galaxies out there.
I do agree with you on your last point , if there is life here , then there must be life there , it's simple logic, there are too many stars and too many galaxies , there is chance of life in a planet in every star, and we have BILLIONS and BILLIONS of stars.

"So, if I were to look for "other" life on "other" planets, I would start this way:

1) What is the planets temperature range and are there any Triple Point molecules that we know of in that range?
2) If yes to 1, is that molecule found in abundence in the planet?
3) If yes to 2, what are the dynamics of this molecule precence in the planet (ie: what is it's "weather" system)?
4) If yes to 3, what are the molecular properties that would be relevant in this weather system?"

Things dont have to be the same as earth for life , thats a rediculous assumption. We have life in our radioactive waste , in volcanoes , and the earths poles , so life here seems to adapt pretty well to almost any environment. Life could be similar yet different depending on the properties of the planet. Look at mars , Mars is very doesnt have earth's tilt , and is different in many ways , but still fairly similar , and it appears to have once had a ton of water , the new probe just landed on sunday (or was suppossed to , didnt check if it made it right) , whihc is going to test the mars areas where they believe there is frozen water , they are going to test if the ice is water , and if i recall correctly for traces of life. I would assume there was once life on mars , and if you look at the Mars pyramids , it might have even been intelligent life. Now before you all start ridiculing , you should check this out , http://www.history.com/minisites/life_after_people
It is estimated , that if humans died off , in just a couple of million years there would be ZERO trace of us , anyone who would come to earth would not realize there was once a thriving civilization here, so , I there's a good possibility Mar's might have once flourished with life , and I think scientists at Nasa are having the same hunch , hence all the interest in the red planet. But we'll see what the tests reveal , it's a pretty exiting experiment they are doing.

Did anyone see the previous movie link I posted ? What did you all think ? I think it's 100% conclusive evidence that UFO's in fact do exists , and the government is fully aware of them , but just dont really know what to make of them , so they just choose to ignore them.