The key to "Reductio Ad Absurdum" is that it relies on your final statement to be "absurd" built up from "non-absurd" statements. And of course, with "absurd" being a subjective statement, it relies on that final statement being SO ridiculous, so laughable, that anyone would instantly recognize it as absurd.

Your final statement was not "absurd", merely "improbable". You made several assumptions and then derived a number. However, a number is NOT clearly absurd. It could be imporobable, likely impossible, but not absurd.

A proper "reductio" applied to this issue would have us do the same assumptions you did but we end up with the result that all planets have life (absurd) or that no planets have life (absurd). Anything in-between is not absurd and that is all that you have shown, the in-between.

So no, it isn't obvious at all that "reductio ad absurdum" is what you were trying to do.

Considering that most items that fall to earth is from the same "source" that made earth, from the same primeval oven that made our solar system, this is not too surprising.

More important in my eyes is the fact that EM radiation from the edge of the visible universe seems to behavive exactly as here. This gives credence to the idea that our Local Laws of Physics are actually Global laws.

Of course there is the catch 22 that maybe EM radiation follows the same rules because we INTERPRET the results following those rules and maybe it's an illusion. But I see no way short of GOING to these stars physically to clear this up.



Here's my problem with this statement and what a random NASA response is:

I see no evidence that they are taking our physical environment into account. I would say that the more accurate statement would be:
GIVEN a planet with our gravity and atmosphere and
GIVEN a planet with our temperature ranges and
GIVEN a planet that is still "alive" with tectonics then
CARBON is quite possible the only molecule that life can exist on.

BUT
CHANGE the gravity and atmosphere and
CHANGE the temperature range and
CHANGE the tectonic activity then
CARBON MAY NOT be the moledule that reacts mostly in this environment.

That is to say, I don't know that any studies have been made (or can be made) at trying to replicate Carbons molecular uniquenesses with other elements in other conditions. I have a gut feeling that you can set up a fake non-earth like planet, we will find that life still exists but built around a different element that has Carbon's life giving properties but only within that range of parameters.

Comandant Dick the 1st left his native planet on board of his star ship
Comandant Dick the 40.000 th discovered the earth
Comandant Dick the 40.050 th received the congratulations message from his native planet
It was found buried under a pyramid , but CIA as usual refuse to disclose it
The message said :

" Compliment comandant Dick the 40.050th and honour to the 4.000.000.000 heroes who sacrificed their life for our great country
I must remind you however that 99 % of the galaxi is still unexplored
Aliens expect that you complete your mission "

This is the conclusion that you would come , just making some simple calculations

Do you call it just "improbable " ?

come on

Yes, studies have been made
The most likely candidate to replace carbon was silicon, being like carbon
That's why in many video games aliens are made of silicon
But finally scientists had to give it up

by the way
Meteorits come also from deep space not only from our solar systems

"LOL

Not so incredible when you consider I have never stated that I hold them in high opinion; that's your fantasy, not mine! smile

LOL

And anyway, there is nothing about being military or government that turns "hearsay" into "evidence". Just because President Jimmy Carter saw something he can't explain doesn't mean that this is "proof" of alien existance."

So you just cant be wrong fastlane ? You will contradict yourself constantly and claim to be right ?
So if scientific community decided the poof of ufos is too much and accept the theory , would you accept it ? Or , would you have to see a UFO yourself ? And if you do , would that be enough ? Or would you need to inevitably be taken aboard a ship and probed , and even then , would u chuck it up to losing your sanity ? See , thats the problem with a person who fully refuses to even minutely accept any type of evidence for something they are 100% against, maybe if you saw an actual alien , you might kill yourself because your brain just cant cope with that reality.

The people on the video , were all military trained professionals , who have kept this to themselves for over 20 years , now , they are older , and no longer part of the government , so they obviously have less pressure , and have decided to come forward. A lot of the classified files had been declassified , and we clearly hear the account of what happened , and it's exactly the same as the man describes , so this man is obviously not an insane incoherent bastard , everything he said is proven with the audio recordings. Now , the government just put it was a weather balloon they had seen when the incident was over , but if you saw the whole video , you see they clearly state they contacted the weather people about any possible weather balloons in that area , and their response was they had nothing over there , they hadn't sent out anything , so it COULDN'T have been a weather balloon, yet they still put thats what it was , just how they say all ufos people see are weather balloons , what a coincidence.
The another trained expert in reading radars comes and examines the radar imagees from the incident , and clearly states that it does not look like a weather anomaly , it looks like there are some things there.

Then the plane they sent to chase this lights , went as far up as it could , but could never get to them ,the pilot said it looked like the lights just kept going up , right out of the planet , and dissapeared .

Are you actually saying this was a military plane fastlane ? To this day , they dont have planes that can fly out of the planet , only big huge rockets for that, so this IS NOT hear say. This is a well documented incident , involving government officials , where we have the audio transmitions of what happened , the radar images , and the testimony of the people who were there , and they chased the lights , lights that just floated up untill they were out of the planet , then dissapeared.

All of the people who were present at the incident , believe it was UFOs , they have explored other possibilities , but none match what happened , everything points to UFOs. Now , you are disguarding all of this people's testimonies , men who are now retired who have served the country all their life , you just disreguard their testimony to what happened like they were some fools and you are some super genius who knows everything , and even know what happened that day better than they do , who were actually there. So , let me ask you this , what was it they saw ? Look at the video , analize the audio , description , radar images they show , and description of everything that happened, what was it ? Maybe the brightest mind in the planet who solves all of our mysteries by saying it's nonsense until he sees them with his own eyes , maybe he can solve what those people saw ?

So, tell us what it was , so we can contact the retired officers and let them know it's ok , it wasnt a UFO , we'll tell them what they saw 30 years ago , so the incident doesnt trouble them anymore.

Here is a quote from the bible , as incredible as it sounds , people like you fastlane have existed from the begining of time, here it is when the disciples saw Jesus had come back , but Thomas wasn't there when it happened , so you have all the disciples telling him Jesus came back , adn this is what he answered

"But Thomas , one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands, and put my finger in the mark of the nails and my hand in his side, I will not believe." A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe." "

So , it is clear that NO AMOUNT of evidence could ever convince you , you just stated if the president said he saw UFOs you would still consider it hear and say and nonsense , so , it is pointless to keep showing you proof , you will refute anything , even an encounter, I am sure you would dismiss it as losing your mind rather than accepting that this things do exist .

Here is the funny part in all this , being a science believer , I would assume this is easier for you to deal with than for say , the religious groups , as you believe in the universe and chance and physics , which all predict life being possible everywhere , which would mean that there could be other much more adgvanced planets in our universe , and we have some stars that are pretty close , we have a couple that are 4 and 5 light years away , that means that if an intelligent species lives in one of those stars , and they are advanced to the point of traveling at the speed of light , it would take them just 4 years to get here , now , if their clocks are different than outs , and to them it's just half a year (not all planets orbit a 360 day year) , then it's incredibly possible that this beings could come visit , and see whats happening here .

Now you can argue intelligent life , but , if you believe in the theory of evolution , then you believe life just somehow can spawn with the right conditions (which if all the universe is the same like you state then this conditions are standard) , and this life begins to evolve , into much more intelligent creatures (even a shitty bug is super intelligent and magnificent considering the first theorized cell), untill you have something like us . So if you believe in science and evolution , you have to accept that any planet supporting life would have life , and you have to believe that life had to evolve , which means there must be people like us there , or more intelligent , or in the process of evolving to people like us , so it's all dependant on the timmeframe this organism started evolving. All the universe is the same right ? And it all follows the same laws right ? So , if all this is true , and the main reason earth has it's conditions is the distance form the sun , then there you have to assume there are tons of planets with the same distance , since the distance is part of the equation of the creation of the solar system which is a direct result of the creation of a star. The tilt , is not nessesary , we definately benefit from it , but it is not a necessecity for life on earth. And the magnetic field is caused by the core , so that shouldnt be a problem either , all pllanets have cores.

So , if you believe in science , believing in Aliens and Ufos really shouldnt be that big of a problem , since you already believe in a scientific world, and we see the ufo's , there are TONS AND TONS of testimonies , and now even government officials , but you refuse to believe any testimonies.

So accodring to fastlane , all of our ancestors were liars , all of the religions are fake and false stories written by our lying and deceiving forefathers , and all of the UFO testimonies are lies as well , by our lying and deceiving citizens of the world , and all of the astronauts testimonies are lies from are lying stronauts , and all of the testimonies from government and military officials are lies as well , from our lying and deceiving government officers. So they are all lying bastards then ? All of our people are lying deceiving snakes , who want us to believe nonsense ? Exept you and your tiny group of evolutionists , they dont lie , you speak 100% verified truth about every single thing in the world and universe ? Oh, and have the answers to all questions as well right ?

I wonder what you will say to refute my arquments , you seem to just dismiss anything you dont agree with anyway , I'm starting to think posting here is pointless , but in any case , the truth will eventually be revealed.

Because your definition of evidence and mine are different, you are correct.

To prove my point...



...you will find not a single piece of evidence to validate this assertion. Not in all my Hillbert or Forum wide posts.

Thus this paragraph, your paragraph, shows how an un-scientific mind will turn undisputed facts (my collected forum postings) into a subjective -- and in this case plainly wrong -- interpretation ("all of our ancestors were liars , all of the religions are fake [...]" )

This is exactly the same as people turning an undisputed fact (moving lights in the air) into a subjective interpretation (extraterrestrial vehicle).

Thanks for making my point for me.

Could you reference these experiement and/or why scientists gave up?



I have NO idea what this is all about or what it's meant to show.
Is this another "absurd" attempt?



I beleive that most of the debris that hits our Earth will in fact be from our local neighborhood (say a 1 lightyear radius from us). During the solar systems creation, the systems gravity would have "sweeped" up outlying debris and left it relatively clear. I'm sure objects from further away can and I'm sure do hit us, but based on my hypothesis, these "extra-solar" objects would be few and far between and thus we are safe in taking as a starting assumption that a meterite is from our local neighborhood.

Science is more about proving that something can not work in the physical world and not about finding the final prove which all of those skeptics are asking for. And the physics of so called “UFO's” are not violating science in any way and so it seems truly just about believe and non-believe.

We are so far away of knowing everything to say”Oh no we don't look into such subjects just because we believe it is not true”.Some scientist work on such subjects but if they would come out and say we look into the subject of so called “UFO's” all they would earn is ridicule and laughter. Not because the are wrong just because people believe what they see in everyday life is all what there is. But the fact remains the military which mostly uses actual technology and spends a lot of money to get scientist to develop new weapon and propulsion systems, believe they are real. Ones the subject of UFOs was officially more highly classified than the H-Bomb. You even find very compelling information on UFO's on the CIA website but you proved before that you are to lazy to search for information fastlane69 .

Those things don't have to come from space but just an other dimension , most of the people here on earth live in 4 dimensions and by now we know that every dimension is open to deformation. The M-Theory even assumes up to 11 dimensions (some physicist even 21) so what is in the rest of them. So maybe like many physicists assume now, we are not tuned to see worlds that are beyond what we can see today. The universe is mostly made out of dark matter something we can't see ,by now it cannot describe in anyway. I think science today is more mature and open to possibilities most of us still deny and they are heading in new directions to go and solve a lot of paradoxes and flaws from the past theories. So it is possible that everywhere around us are other worlds which sometimes interfere with our world and these beings could come from these places.

The question is also how would we discover the universe or galaxy, we have no chance to travel to all the stars and there planets, we could send out tiny robots to the stars and there moons. That what a galactic civilization would do, and maybe in a 100 years from now when we have a moon base we will find one of these nano- robots.

It sounds like most of the debunker's condemn anyone who commits the crime to be or think different and more so even tries to collect evidence on a subject that 50 % of the people think is not real. The word believe is actually not the right word, I would say a lot of the testimony is credible these people are not a part of a believe system , most didn't even believe in the existence of UFO's in the first place ,thats just what people saw and reported. I also saw some stuff in the sky and also searched for down to earth explanations airplanes, planets, ISS reflections, light balls (f.e.flares), balloons aso, so sometimes I have done a lot of research just to find out that these where Chinese balloons but there was some stuff that doesn't fit into any of the explanations.

A question to all those die hard “debunker's”:

Lets just image you see in bright daylight clearly a flying disk hovering completely silent in the sky for a few minutes and then take off into what we call “space”, you would say to yourself no a haven't seen this because 50 % of the people think this is not real? It doesn't have to be alien but it could also be one of ours but if we have such technology why are we still use rockets to get into space ? But maybe you doesn't see such thing either because you don't want to or just look to ground all the time.

So in the end if someday this phenomenon is revealed to be other beings maybe not from space but from an other dimension who will be more prepared to accept this reality? the believers or the non-believers.

50% correct. It is true that no scientist has any delusion of finding any "final" anything. Answers lead to questions lead to answers lead to questions ad nausium. We in science know, respect, and abide by that belief. The 50% that I believe you are incorrect in is your description of how science operates. I'm not quite sure exactly "what" you mean but the general idea seems skewed and awaits further clarification on your part.



You mean here:?

CIA.GOV; search query = ufo; second query return item

"[...]What emerges from this examination is that, while Agency concern over UFOs was substantial until the early 1950s, CIA has since paid only limited and peripheral attention to the phenomena. [...]Like the JFK assassination conspiracy theories, the UFO issue probably will not go away soon, no matter what the Agency does or says. The belief that we are not alone in the universe is too emotionally appealing and the distrust of our government is too pervasive to make the issue amenable to traditional scientific studies of rational explanation and evidence."

I should write a book on this syndrome. Call it "the religion of the internet", this nouveau idea that if its on the net, it's true and it's factual and it's evidence. Suppose the CIA posted Alien Photos and said, factually and clearly: "these are real alien photos". And nothing else. That's it. No new tech. No new announcement, nothing. Just a single photo for 1, 5, 10, 20 years or more. Would you believe them? Is a non-repeatable event enough evidence to solidify or change your beliefs? I dare say not. But let me kick the scenario up a notch based on the religious bent of our audience.

Same situation as above but one minor change. The CIA posts on their website "this is a real alien and he says that all gods are false". Hmmm. Now then, if it's on the CIA website it MUST be true. But I love god. What do you do? I dare say in this case you would consider the new "evidence" not evidence at all, right?



Interesting assertion. Let's see if it's true however:

Consider that there is mountain of evidence in this post and others that I in fact do more "search for information" than most people here. I put links to my research, references to the people and events, and overall always have some source to back up my opinions with facts. Even if my opinion is ultimately proven wrong, by stating that I am "too lazy to search for information", you, like why_do have taken a fact (information content of my posts) and come up with a wrong subjective interpretation (too lazy to search for information).

This is another clear example of how the facts can be undisputed and there for all to see and yet, if left to subjective interpretation, can be completely misinterpreted and just plain wrong!

Thanks for making my point about how subjective all of these talks are, Subcrea!



That's exactly my stance as well... it is possible...

BUT,

As you point out, they could be inter dimensional travelers, they could be a yet unknown intra-systems species, they could be from this galaxy, the next, or the very end of time. So... how do we tell which is which? How do you use the evidence so far (photos and hearsay) to eliminate one or more of these possibilities? Ask ANY questions about these aliens and apply the same logic: how can I use the evidence at hand to answer that question? If what you CLAIM is evidence truly is, it should help answer more questions than "do they exist?"... a lot more questions! Yet you will find it difficult, if not impossible, to answer even the most basic of questions about these aliens given what you and others consider "evidence".



As I've made clear before, I don't dispute the facts (people seeing something), I merely dispute their subjective interpretation (that there is no doubt, they are 100% sure, that they are alien craft).



I will not dispute the fact (that I saw a hovering disk) and I will not forward any subjective interpretation (it was an alien, inter dimensional, government top secret, angelic chariot, etc...).

I will do research and see if I can find an answer -- others that saw it, newspapers, local airports, etc -- but if I can't find an answer, I'm free to believe whatever I want, aren't I?

Fastlane , you are a JOKE man. Plain and simple , I would tell you the proper words that describe you but sadly this forum is full of homosexuals and I would undoubtely get banned for it. But , a UFO is an UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT.


"This is exactly the same as people turning an undisputed fact (moving lights in the air) into a subjective interpretation (extraterrestrial vehicle)."

So you are saying you do believe they saw lights in the sky , but it was not an extraterrestial vehicle , however , it WAS a UFO right ? (look at the description of what a ufo is I put ontop).

But if you cannot prove it wasnt an alien ship , then it could very well be , and since this military officials believe it was , and they are trained officers , and they were there , then , I believe their testimony is much more credible and respectable than yours , someone who was not there , is not a trained air craft specialist , and has no idea of what they saw.

Where are your credentials ? What kind of training do you have that would qualify you to over rule their conclusions on the sucject considering their training and position . Further illuminate why we here should even mildly consider what you have to say versus what they have to say.

"As I've made clear before, I don't dispute the facts (people seeing something), I merely dispute their subjective interpretation (that there is no doubt, they are 100% sure, that they are alien craft)."

We arent even 100% sure we actually exist , how can you be so damnding of them ?
Scientists arent 100% sure what we are or where we are.
Scientists aren't 100% sure about evolution or the big bang.
Yet you seem to not have any problems with this , you only seem to require 100% when it comes to a subject you are in discordance with , which shows you are indeed of a true scientist nature, to only acknowledge what you agree with , and overlook and ignore the rest.