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Have game musicians become whiny divas? #212060
06/19/08 23:33
06/19/08 23:33
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fastlane69 Offline OP
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fastlane69  Offline OP
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Last month, the voice/body actor behind GTA's Niko raised a big stink over his "cut" from the game:

Boo, Hoo the world ain't fair

"“Obviously I’m incredibly thankful to Rockstar for the opportunity to be in this game when I was just a nobody, an unknown quantity, [...] But it’s tough, when you see Grand Theft Auto IV out there as the biggest thing going right now, when they’re making hundreds of millions of dollars, and we don’t see any of it.”


And now another composer is up in arms over his work for MoH:EA :

My piece, my rules

"While I do not control the ownership of this piece, I am extremely disappointed [by] its placement in this commercial. I did not authorize the use and was not made aware of the situation. "

You did not authorize it's use???
What a bunch of f'n divas!
Did they not understand what WORK FOR HIRE means?
Did they conveniently forget where the IP lies and what that means?
Do they not get how OUR industry works?

Some programmer spends 60 hours a week in front of a computer, neglecting family, neglecting health, to get the game going and these, these, DIVAS, come in to their cushy studios and do a few hours of talking and moving a day and then they have the GALL to think they a) they are more important than the rest of the team (example 1) or b) that they should have some say over how others legally use their works after it's done (example 2).

Personally, I feel this attitude needs to be squashed and squashed HARD lest our industry become a haven for Divas who think that just because they are the sound of a game, that they are the soul of the game!


Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: fastlane69] #212105
06/20/08 12:54
06/20/08 12:54
Joined: Jan 2004
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Helghast Offline
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Helghast  Offline
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Nothing new going on in the voice acotrs world.
I recall a thread some time ago where this same issue has been adressed, but only that time, all of the voice actors were complaining about "only" getting 800$ USD for each recording session they did, and because their voice was one of the big things in the game, they felt left out, and wanted a raise...
I dont think (and hope) they got it though, i agree, programmers and designers put more time in then these people, and they think they can take over the industry "because it's their voice"... what if us designers stopped, they would have no voice at all anymore!
No, youre right, this has to be squashed and made clear, it's OUR game, not YOURS!


Formerly known as dennis_fantasy
Portfolio - http://www.designorhea.com/
Project - http://randomchance.cherrygames.org/
Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: Helghast] #212146
06/20/08 17:03
06/20/08 17:03
Joined: May 2007
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ArtimusBena Offline
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I think it really depends on the musician. Some musicians really do make the game something it could never have been without it. In the case that a musician has added that much to the project, then I say reward them for their hard work. And by the way, great music can be very hard work for anyone who cares enough to make it great.

So uh yeah, my answer to this is: depends on the composer's influence in the project.


~I'm pretty sure I'm uncertain.
Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: ArtimusBena] #212161
06/20/08 18:41
06/20/08 18:41
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fastlane69 Offline OP
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fastlane69  Offline OP
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Quote:
Some musicians really do make the game something it could never have been without it.


With the exception of the music based games (DDR, rock star, papparappa, etc), I can't think of a single game where this is true.

To boot, I can't think of a single game that I enjoyed less because I turned the music off. Nor of a game where the music ruined my game experience (since as before, I can just turn it off)

Music adds drama and tension and atmosphere to any game, there is no denying that. The difference between great music and poor music is how well integrated these elements are in a game. But it is ADDING to what is already there, it isn't "the game"... it isn't, in effect, what we are paying for when we buy the game. After all, if I want the music, I'd buy the CD, not the game


Further, the emotion we feel is based on the environment. Thus "flight of the valkyrie" can be associated with a Bugs Bunny cartoon or a troop of helicopters coming in over the horizon. The emotion the music elicits is based on the totality of the experience and not just the music (classic, silly "kill the wabbit" in one; stern, stark Vietnam air calvary charge in the other).

Put another way music is no more or less important than any other area of the game, such as programming and art... there are 100's of other voice actors that could have done Niko, thousands of other "war tunes" that would have fit MoH:EA.... just like there are 100's of other programmers and artists who could have done the same for the games. And in fact it may be less important in the sense that if the musician messes up, I can turn the music off... but if the Artist or Programmer messes up, I turn the game off!

Again, I don't see how music should be elevated to a position higher than the entire game production team.

Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: fastlane69] #212177
06/20/08 19:08
06/20/08 19:08
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ArtimusBena Offline
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Never said it should be elevated to a position higher than the entire game production team. And from what this original post suggests, neither are the people saying that $800 was far too little a cut. I didn't read any of the links you provided, but I'm pretty sure the musicians don't consider themselves more important than the game design team.

Chrono Trigger, Halo, and Super Mario Bros. are really good examples of what makes music special. It turned (and will turn, in Halo's case) these games into nostalgia. People can hum the tunes, feel nostalgic, and play it again solely starting from that one event in their mind. It CAN make or break a game. I read a study a while ago where they tested the same game on very similar groups of people, one version with sound, one without, and the one with sound was rated far higher. Ya might say that without music there would still be a game, but I guarantee far less people will enjoy it if the audio is crap. People won't be as immersed, and won't play as long. Seems obvious to me, but then I'm a musician and have paid close attention to music's effect on people.




Last edited by ArtimusBena; 06/20/08 19:09.

~I'm pretty sure I'm uncertain.
Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: ArtimusBena] #212183
06/20/08 19:18
06/20/08 19:18
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ArtimusBena Offline
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ArtimusBena  Offline
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(Surely I'll be branded a whiny diva now, but if you think about it, all I'm saying is that music may not be the most important part, but it does have significant importance. Else, the game industry would probably not utilize it the way it does.)


~I'm pretty sure I'm uncertain.
Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: ArtimusBena] #212188
06/20/08 19:49
06/20/08 19:49
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fastlane69 Offline OP
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fastlane69  Offline OP
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Quote:

(Surely I'll be branded a whiny diva now, but if you think about it, all I'm saying is that music may not be the most important part, but it does have significant importance.


Not at all for that is the point. The examples above (and hopefully not part of a trend) is the opposite though, with them thinking that they should get more money (example 1) or more say (example 2) then the rest of the team is due.

Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: fastlane69] #212189
06/20/08 19:51
06/20/08 19:51
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Posts: 1,835
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Nardulus Offline
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Wow 100K for 18 months very easy, part time work. Boo F**king Hoo....

Last I checked, union scale was $425 per hour for voice talent. You can pay more based on the talent cred's...

Now this bozo will probably not get any more work in our industry, what a dork.

Send in the next guy who can speak with a crappy Russian accent, I am sure he will accept a 100K.... Next....

Now, music can be purchased for relatively cheap. Its the rare game that needs custom music created. And yes there are musicians that charge way to much for something that is basically window dressing...

Rockstar had their dicks on the line for 100 million. Plus staving off EA. They deserve the profits and should not have to share it beyond those that made a real contribution to a non linear story line and open space game experience.

Paying lame talent will kill the video game market sure as it has crippled the movie industry... I just heard that Star Power in Hollywood no longer ensures success, duh... Seen any good Tom Cruise movies lately...

Doing voice is the sames SFX in our medium. Good acting is appreciated but not critical to a games success.

Ken

Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: Nardulus] #212193
06/20/08 20:01
06/20/08 20:01
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ArtimusBena Offline
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That's fine fastlane, I just can't bare to let their example ruin music's role in anyone's mind. It's like watching a movie without music, and then watching the same movie with. Completely different experience, I promise you.


*edit* ah, another example, King's Quest VI would have been half as fun (and I've tried this theory out, as I have an amiga version) without the superb voice acting.

Last edited by ArtimusBena; 06/20/08 20:05. Reason: had another game to mention

~I'm pretty sure I'm uncertain.
Re: Have game musicians become whiny divas? [Re: Nardulus] #212194
06/20/08 20:04
06/20/08 20:04
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fastlane69 Offline OP
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fastlane69  Offline OP
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I was just going to go off on the same Movie industry rant, Nard! cool

I feel that the bigger picture here are Movie Industry values trying to infiltrate the Games Industry... and quite frankly us not putting up with it!

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