My problem with this wonderfull engine is the script-language. When you are in c/c ++, lite-c then it's so hard to learn LUA for stone 3D. It's a totaly different and language.

Yeah for me move from Java/C/lite-C to C# is more make sense.

The scripting language is just a tool. Nothing bad with that. Many professional games have been scripted with LUA and even more of them are currently in production using LUA.

If you really want to make games then you should look at the complete tool-set. C# (or Lite-C) is useless if you have a bad renderer. And a good renderer might be useless if you cannot import your art. The complete tool-chain makes the game at the end.

Today i had a look on shiva again and it's a amazing tool. I think i will learn LUA. I have one question. Is the free version of shiva full functional ? Which limitation i have with the free version ?

version comparison table:
http://www.stonetrip.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=28

it's fully functional. you just cannot publish your games. and the optimization tools are left out, but these won't be available in the "unlimited" edition, too. you'd have to get "advanced" for that.

Gave it another try recently and sadly the interface was a no-go for me again. How can you seriously like that? I mean why would I want to have a webbrowser in my engine toolkit anyway? Maybe it's just like with Blender that it's good once you know it but whenever I play around with it and want to do something the interface fights me and I sort of hate having lots of little windows of different programme aspects everywhere...

Makes me sad because I really like the features it provides...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

xsi has a web browser in its editor, too. but it's not necessary to display it in shiva, simply remove the editor icon from the left bar. or switch to another worklace, there are 4 preconfigurted workspaces, choose the one you like the best, or simply reconfigure one.
i don't think that the interface fights you, it's a bit too stylish for my taste, all this shiny purple and black, but nothing gets in my way, everything is arranged cleanly and has self explaining icons. it takes a little to get used to, give it a chance. and noone forces you to buy anything to play around with it.

You know - that's pretty much it:
Why can I have only 4 workspaces with like 4 windows each? Why can't they just give me 10 workspaces (from 0 to 9) so I can put like 1 tool each in there or maybe two of em on one side and then switch around this way (or even 12 of em so I have one for every F-key)? It's just that I hate having so much small windows everywhere which also makes you scroll around forever if there are longer lists...

I'm not sure right now but can you really alter the window seperation at all despite those 4 layouts? Would have to try it again but iirc you can't even resize the windows to your need (despite having everything to maximize to fullscreen)...

Enjoy your meal
Toast

If that is the reason to not make a game then you will find much bigger barriers in the future.

I remember the time where I created a complete episode of 9 levels for doom (yes the first doom) with an old DOS editor, not much feedback and long compiling times. The tutorial was too short and the interface was totally different.
But nobody did complain.

Today it is so easy to get into 3d. Blender is great and commercial tools are even better.

Shiva looks great to me, well thought and understandable. But I also have some doubts when I try to get into it: Many informations are spread in French and I don't understand French.
But I prefer C4 anyway because of the good scene-management there.

Nevertheless I appreciate the hard work and the good result of the Shiva technology and tools. They have a great material editor, good feedback while working and a lot of options and publishing possibilities - far more than many other tools provide.

I didn't mean this a total barrier but as something I really dislike and as recently Lone Wolf hobbyist accessibility is important to me. So being forced to seperate 19 subtools (well 18 without the webbrowser) on four desktops with only five possible layouts and a lack of the option to resize the windows to my needs is a big disadvantage imo...


Well I don't see your argument here. I've also worked with some old tools and know quite a bit of what you're telling here but what has that to do with a modern piece of software. GUIs aren't something new at all and together with the immense increase on possibilities, features and options a good management for all this is crucial imo...

Maybe Shiva has a nice concept for this and maybe you just have to spend some time to realize this (we'll see about that as I haven't given up yet) but the said points about what I don't like about the interface cripple down the workflow imo and well - make it a bit "ugly" to use (and that's imo a rather big issue as fixing this is no huge task)...


Yeah - although I think there's not much difference to the German/English situation you have for 3DGS. I luckily understand quite some french...

Enjoy your meal
Toast