Maybe a fresh start will get us where we want to be.


Let's start with a simple question for Conitec:

If almost the entire MP community is telling you the GS Net Engine is useless, then why won't you listen to us?

Why not work WITH us to get a better network for GS instead of AGAINST us in defense of a dead engine in DPLAY?

When asking questions on this forum, it's helpful when you also read the answers. Either you're having a specific technical problem with your MMOG and are interested in a solution from us, or you are not. Just let me know.

I can understand that when a project is not successful, you want as many people as possible confirming that it was not your fault, but the engine's fault. However, we can only help when you tell us the problems and specify them. So please let me know whether I understood your main problems correctly in my above response, and then we can go forward.

Ok , stop with the arguments...
Lets not focus on who did something wrong or who didnt do something at all.
Conitec assumes that the users cant make their network systems correctly. The users assume that Conitec didnt do the networking part correctly. You're both right.
I can think of 100s of ways to improve my own MMO attempt , wich currently should support between 50 and 100 clients. But , I'm also shure I can think of 100s of ways that Conitec can improve the engine to support more clients. Not only with this encryption (wich I cant use because I'm using A6.4) but also with server to server communication & collaboration on , for example , LAN network and other 'small' features wich can help everybody get to that part...the MMO part.
Cant we just sit down and think together on what is actually the main feature missing in the engine , that Conitec should add ? And , lets leave the users responsibilities aside. Conitec isnt responsible for bad dead-reckoning

PS.: Personally , I think , that this Server to server communication is a major feature missing. Yes , you can make it with plugins , but why should users use Acknex if they can use those plugins in other engines ? I'm not offensive right now , I'm just making a point...If Acknex had something like this , or other similar functions , users could use it to get closer to a MMO. There is no point in scripting a whole network system and use it with Acknex if you can use any other engine , or even your own. Conitec can change that by improving Acknexs network system. We all get what we want right ?

*EDIT* : I forgot to add...If you cant calculate numbers in your head , people made calculators for you to use...You wont need to learn to calculate huge numbers faster in your head...Same goes here. Not everyone has learned in a school how to make a MMO game. I dont know even the basics in networking...What I've learned , I know from the manual of 3DGS. Do I need to go to a specialised school to learn all that , when an engine can provide me ready to use functions to make a MMO...Everyone should think about that and , actually , thats what 3DGS is about. Thats the purpose of having it. Helping users create good games with no knowledge in C++ for example. I'm shure most of the commercial projects here cant be made with the 'lesser' languages out there and C++ would have been required if 3DGS wasnt available...Thats just an example.

Straight to the functionalities:

Not a long list from me, as I haven't dealt at all with MMo, but thopughts that came up and I didn't find a solution without requiring heavy workarounds -> would be fine if they were natively supported

- a lobby system
- "ranged" network functions which only update entities within a definable range on each client to keep traffic to a minimum

a lobby system should be a must for all multi-player games. It is what keeps a gaming comunity alive all games should also be moddable if the publiser wants them to be, but thats a different thing from multiplayer

The latter. Technical problems with my game are another issue all together which I will address with you privately through consultation.

What I would like is to do is what Firo and Epsilon have done and give our working impressions of what works and what doesn't in the MP engine. Note: this is not a "bug fix" thread, this is an "architecture" thread. The core GS MP Architecture is flawed in my and others opinions and this is what I wish to address.

I'm interested here in talking about solutions to the current MP engine which, as I've stated, most of us feel is a failure.

I'm interested in talking about all the "workarounds" that many of us in the MP community have had to do to create viable MP games and how Conitec can help us to NOT have to workaround.

As Epsilon stated, we should move the discussion towards outlining the current state of the net engine, what works, and what doesn't.

I personally am going to wait to post my issues until others have, like Firo. This way it's not a "one man crusade" but a "community effort".

I suggest the following to Conitec to cirumvent these kind of Problems:



-Fastlane requires an environment/ client Server communication that deviates from what a newbee to netstuff or a hobby programmer needs.

-The Networking engine is a made to automize a lot of precedures
to create an automatic syncronized 3dgs environment on all clients. The intuition is to have the user make as less as possible to realize a coherent Client-Server enironemnt.
(example: created entities on the server are in the normal case
created n the clients)


Now this is the root of the problems regarding Fastlanes needs,
as he tries to manually switch off or work around the
automatic functions that one step lower (engine) are
build from lower level functionality to help the user.

Bottom Point:

The qutomized functionality that is supposed to ease the development is causing the problems.


The sollution:

Make a pure mode which can be switched on
(pure_networking = on) default off

in this mode, the only things the engine is doing:


-create a serversocket (free choice of the ports) (multiple serversockets if possible)
-create a client"socket", connect to IP+Port manually.

-when connection is established, confirm to client and server.
-client can send only dataarrays to the server
-server can kick the client
-server can send only dataarrays to client (to all clients, a specific client by iD, or a defined clientgroup)
-client and server have to implement their own function to read out or create the dataarrays.
-server can note when client send last data (recognizing broken links)
-server can limit the data received by an client to
x bytes (for example to check login)
-server can block any clientconnection by IP, so any client
from this IP cant open a connection.

-a client can also run as server (using another port)


ALL OTHER FUNCTIONALITIES TURNED OFF.
no entity creation over the net, not check for loaded levels,
etc...


This is basically all fastlane needs.
This is a good raw basis for a user to create his own networking.
So no "workarounds" are needed, just the skill to
handle and create the higher level networking by himself.

This way it would by possible without an external dll
to create a MMO, and using 3dgs' real strenght the visual rendering.

Nonsense. It's already possible to turn off all the stuff. What he's complaining about is the way the BASIC things are working and that no more advanced features are available.

Dude I know pretty exactly what I talking about.

A when he has a pure networking all following
tasks are up to his skill to implement it himself using Lite-C
..classical programming

Oxy, just list your own requirements not others, Fastlane said he was waiting not he needed a puppet to do it for him

Server -> Server (Although this was never given as a feature, a necessity to support MMOs)
Client -> Server communication while in different levels / zones
Client connection which doesn't crash Server if scripts not compatible, should only reject client
Server -> Client File transfer
Client -> Server File transfer (personally i don't need one yet, but in future projects i'm sure to)