Hilbert's Hotel

Diskussionsforum zur Unendlichkeit: Theismus, Atheismus, Primzahlen, Unsterblichkeit, das Universum...
Discussing Infinity: theism and atheism, prime numbers, immortality, cosmology, philosophy...

Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
Blobsculptor tools and objects download here
by NeoDumont. 03/28/24 03:01
Issue with Multi-Core WFO Training
by aliswee. 03/24/24 20:20
Why Zorro supports up to 72 cores?
by Edgar_Herrera. 03/23/24 21:41
Zorro Trader GPT
by TipmyPip. 03/06/24 09:27
VSCode instead of SED
by 3run. 03/01/24 19:06
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
The Bible Game
A psychological thriller game
SHADOW (2014)
DEAD TASTE
Who's Online Now
5 registered members (Quad, AndrewAMD, Imhotep, TipmyPip, Edgar_Herrera), 809 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
sakolin, rajesh7827, juergen_wue, NITRO_FOREVER, jack0roses
19043 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 2
Page 11 of 67 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 66 67
Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: smitty] #239864
12/07/08 21:53
12/07/08 21:53
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043
Germany
Lukas Offline

Programmer
Lukas  Offline

Programmer

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043
Germany
We still have remains of a tail.
Our DNA is similar to apes and even to any creatures, too.

Evolution is proven. Creationism is disproven.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #239866
12/07/08 22:02
12/07/08 22:02
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
S
smitty Offline
Member
smitty  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
Lukas, maybe you have remains of a tail, but I don't and have never seen a human who does. Evolution is NOT proven, and Creationism is not disproven.

http://www.icr.org/article/459/
The Rapidly Unraveling Thread between DNA and "Human Evolution"
by Frank Sherwin, M.A.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: smitty] #239868
12/07/08 22:11
12/07/08 22:11
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043
Germany
Lukas Offline

Programmer
Lukas  Offline

Programmer

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043
Germany
I'll read your link later, I currently have no time.

However, the remain of a tail is the coccyx. I have never seen (alive) humans without one.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #239870
12/07/08 22:15
12/07/08 22:15
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
S
smitty Offline
Member
smitty  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
Lukas, I figured that was what you were referring to, but nothing proves that is the remains of a tail. The following is another good article when you have the time to read them. They are not long articles. smile

DNA: A Stew-pendous Creation
by Frank Sherwin, M.A.*
http://www.icr.org/article/3137/

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #239872
12/07/08 22:25
12/07/08 22:25
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
S
smitty Offline
Member
smitty  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
Lukas, This article is a little longer, but I hope you and others will take the time to read it.

Evolution and the Human Tail
by Duane Gish, Ph.D.

http://www.icr.org/article/210/

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: JibbSmart] #239873
12/07/08 22:39
12/07/08 22:39
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 868
Chicago, IL
Dooley Offline
User
Dooley  Offline
User

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 868
Chicago, IL
I'm an American Muslim, born in Germany, I grew up Christian, and later became an Agnostic. In 1996 I accepted Islam. I say this only to explain that I may be able to add a new perspective on this matter.

I think one of the biggest problems in this discussion is that Evolutionism and Creationism are somehow percieved to be mutually exclusive. This is probably due to the historical context in which these theories evolved. In the Middle Ages, the Roman Catholic Church was responsible for a lot of persecution of Scientifically minded people, including Galileo, as well as anyone who dissented from their views. Later this caused the scientific community to seek to undermine the validity of Christianity, by putting a literal interpretation of the Bible up to scientific scrutiny.

In the Muslim world, no such division ever took place, the sciences were encouraged in the Quran, so science flourished for a long time in the Muslim world, and actually helped to revive the sciences in Europe, leading to the Rennaisance. The idea that God(Allah) caused the universe to evolve over time, is perfectly in accordance with the teachings of the Quran. One important reason for this is that while the Quran does mention the heavens and the earth being created in 6 days, the word for 'days' in Arabic can also mean 'periods of time'. There's no problem scientifically in understanding the evolution of the universe to have occurred in 6 time periods, so again we have harmony between religion and science.

In regard to the Christian view, it is quite possible that the English translations of the Bible, are not quite capturing the exact meanings of the original Hebrew text. Perhaps in ancient Hebrew, days means "periods of time" too. Muslims believe that prophets were sent to all people, including Moses, Jesus and many others. While we hold that the Torah and the Gospel were divinely inspired books, we also acknowledge that some tampering and missinterpretation has occurred to the texts over the centuries. The Quran warns us of this phenomenon, which is why such great pains were taken to preserve its original text.

Back to the topic, I think the facts of evolution should definitely be taught in science class, but some of the conclusions, which are not scientific, should be avoided. The idea that evolution should lead one to believe that there is no God, is a stretch, and probably stems from the historical controversy I mentioned earlier. I don't think God can be proven or disproven scientifically, but it is a matter of personal experience. I can easily prove the existance of God to myself, and I can offer some convincing arguments for others to consider, but I know they do not stand up to scientific scrutiny, nor can they be measured by scientific means. It's a personal choice, ultimatly that I've made to believe.

I don't think schools should leave out religion either. Religion is a powerful force in our society, and we need to understand how other peoples beliefs cause them to act. Perhaps creationism could be taught, as suggested earlier, in a sociology class, or social studies, as part of the lesson on Christianity.

There were a couple other things I'd like to address, which came up earlier in this discussion...
Originally Posted By: JulzMighty
Quote:


[quote]Even in my school (I'm from Greece), I remember these two Albanian students in our class, who were forced to leave class and stay outside during our religion module (the kids were muslim and their mothers didn't want them to participate in the class). Now, being in a foreign country and be different than everyone else is difficult enough without the school alienating you by excluding you from class. Just my two cents worth..
what's the point of this? the school didn't exclude them from their class. their mothers did. if their mum's felt that science was bad for their religious beliefs and asked that they left the class during their science module, is the school excluding them, or are their mums?


Their moms didn't keep them out of science class, they kept them out of "our religion module", which was probably Chritianity.

Also, someone mentioned how Religions try to confuse people first, then offer a clear solution i.e. "the Bible Says...". I think this is a human problem, not a religious problem. Yes religions have been missused, and are missused to this day, to justify horrible things. We Muslims are as guilty as any of this, but so are many other philosophies, like nationalism, secularism, and even Darwinism.

I hope this helps...

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #239877
12/07/08 22:50
12/07/08 22:50
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
S
smitty Offline
Member
smitty  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
Dooley, thank you so much for your comments. The Hebrew is literal 24 hour days.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #239880
12/07/08 23:07
12/07/08 23:07
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
S
smitty Offline
Member
smitty  Offline
Member
S

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
Dooley, you may find this article of interest.

Do The Days Really Matter?
by Kenneth Ham

http://www.icr.org/article/689/

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: smitty] #239891
12/08/08 03:39
12/08/08 03:39
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
J
JibbSmart Offline
Expert
JibbSmart  Offline
Expert
J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
Quote:
Their moms didn't keep them out of science class, they kept them out of "our religion module", which was probably Chritianity.
i didn't say their mums kept them out of science. i simply gave a similar example to show why neither the school nor the topic at hand can be blamed for "excluding" those kids.

though i understand the misunderstanding. i wasn't very clear.

julz


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: JibbSmart] #239910
12/08/08 08:29
12/08/08 08:29
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 658
germany
Tiles Offline
User
Tiles  Offline
User

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 658
germany
Quote:
Tiles, Darwinism is not proven knowledge just because some people believe it.


One word to the word "theory". In science everything is a theory. Don't mix that with unproven or untrue. It's most of the time the opposite.

Science is no religion my son. This is not a "believe in". And it is of course not "some" who "believe" in Darwinism. It's "just" the majority of humans plus ALL scientists.

Every new bit of knowledge and facts proves the darwinism true. And not a single one has disproven the Darwinism theory in 150 years. Because ALL facts points in directon of Darwinism. I think we can pretty well talk of it as proven knowledge. If not that what else is? What's next to deny because it doesn't fit to a 2000 year old religion? Gravity? Isn't mentioned in the bible. so kill gravity, KILL ...

Genesis disproves itself in the very first sentences. ALL facts speaks against it. Please. The Universe fulfilled with Water? Who has drunken it then? Isn't longer there. And it doesn't fit to what we can see with telescopes like hubble anyways. Doesn't fit to whole modern science. Man made equal to god? Does he have pickles and flatulence? What is he eating? While at it, HE? Who found out? And how?

Creationism is just another try to get the control over people back by selling religious fairytales as facts. This try is so cheap, but there are still people that believes in it.

What comes next? Back to The earth is the middle of anything? Back to Witch burnings? Back to crusade? Killing in the name of a god is THE specialty of religions.

Last edited by Tiles; 12/08/08 08:36.

trueSpace 7.6, A7 commercial
Free gamegraphics, freewaregames http://www.reinerstilesets.de
Die Community rund um Spiele-Toolkits http://www.clickzone.de
Page 11 of 67 1 2 9 10 11 12 13 66 67

Moderated by  jcl, Lukas, old_bill, Spirit 

Kompaktes W�rterbuch des UnendlichenCompact Dictionary of the Infinite


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1