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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: JibbSmart]
#240049
12/09/08 01:34
12/09/08 01:34
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205 Greece
LarryLaffer
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Posts: 1,205
Greece
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while it's a good example, it is still strictly me excluding them from it, assuming i would pull them away from it. i don't think i actually would pull them away from it. i'm not a huge fan of protecting kids from the world; more helping them grow in such a way that they can deal with it. if they're protected from other belief systems and then step out into the big bad world where they make Muslim friends who try to convert them and all they can say is "how come i didn't know about any of this?" that would be bad. Good for you. I don't like overprotective parents either. Mine totally let me make my own mind about the uncertainties in our world. Even though my mother believes in the christian God and my father was also an active communist in his youth, I didn't learn about any of this until I was over 20 because until then they never ever spoke a word to me about either religion or politics. I was completely free to make up my own mind about these two subjects whereas other children don't have this opportunity to choose for themselves (it's so easy for parents to accidentally brainwash their kids..) However, I don't like that you described your kid's mulsim friends that try to convert him as "the big bad world". In the same sense, smitty now is also the big bad world for trying to convert all of us (and any young non-christian kids lurking these forums) into christianity. smitty, enough with the bloody quotes. You know, I was about to finally go buy and read the bible, but now with all these spoilers that you threw in this thread you completely ruined it for me :P The Passion by Mel Gibson was also a major giveaway for me (the jesus dude dies???).
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: smitty]
#240055
12/09/08 02:17
12/09/08 02:17
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205 Greece
LarryLaffer
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205
Greece
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Hmmm, I'm the big bad world for presenting what I believe is the truth? Interesting. No, you didn't understand the point I tried to make. Btw, please don't categorize me in any left wing-right wing b*llshit.. Larry, you can still read the bible. I'm certain that like all of us there is plenty there you do not know. wink Yep, Jesus died, but the great thing is that He is Risen! It was a joke smitty..
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: LarryLaffer]
#240056
12/09/08 02:31
12/09/08 02:31
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
smitty
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Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
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Quote: Btw, please don't categorize me in any left wing... Well, if the shoe fits... I am right (wing) and proud of it! Quote: It was a joke smitty.. I know you meant it to be a joke, but you failed miserably.
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: smitty]
#240058
12/09/08 02:59
12/09/08 02:59
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,205 Greece
LarryLaffer
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Quote: Btw, please don't categorize me in any left wing-right wing...well, if the shoe fits... That's just the american way of thinking. We don't even have the notion of left wing or right wing in my country. No person is exactly the same as the one next to him. Like Chris Rock puts it, there are some things I'm conservative about and there are some things I'm liberal about. If you label yourself one of the only two available choices (apparently) instead of forming your own opinions on things that concern you, to me that sounds like sheep behavior. I know you meant it to be a joke, but you failed miserably. I'm sorry that didn't do it for you... How about this one? Goodnight, Aris
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: smitty]
#240061
12/09/08 03:03
12/09/08 03:03
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
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However, I don't like that you described your kid's mulsim friends that try to convert him as "the big bad world". that was an expression, which i probably should've put in quotes myself. my mum uses it a lot and i assumed it was fairly common, but perhaps not. "stepping out into the big bad world" describes the point when one is suddenly completely independent of one's parents/caretakers. i intended "the big bad world" as the context in which a young adult might get their very first taste of Islam if they are too sheltered. i didn't realise your parents' varied backgrounds! and i'm glad while we can disagree on religious issues we can agree on issues of life-application, ie: parenting . julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: LarryLaffer]
#240062
12/09/08 03:06
12/09/08 03:06
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
smitty
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Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 178
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That's right, I am one of His sheep, and eternally grateful to Him for that! John 10 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: AlbertoT]
#240069
12/09/08 06:01
12/09/08 06:01
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 868 Chicago, IL
Dooley
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Posts: 868
Chicago, IL
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AlbertoT . the Roman Catholic Church was responsible for a lot of persecution of Scientifically minded people, including Galileo. This is a very popular opinion but it is false Galileo has never been persecuted by the Catholic Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei"Galileo was eventually forced to recant his heliocentrism and spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition." In terms of the Inquisition, your right, this hardly sounds like persecution. It's not like they pulled his fingernails out or anything. (sarcasm) For Smitty, thanks, I will look up those links you pointed to. I would also advise you not to quote so much scripture in your posts. There's nothing wrong with it, and I'm sure your intentions are good. However, since the subject here is a scientific one, and since science uses the language of logic and reason, it might be more helpful to approach your perspective from that angle too. Scripture will be very useful when determining what your beliefs are, but take an example from Paul. He didn't just quote scripture, he used his wits and argued his point with reason and logic too. My point is that an atheist will be more likely to see your point through a reasoned argument, rather than through a direct quote from the Bible. Since he has already decided not to believe in the Bible, it will have very little effect on him. Back to the topic... I think there's an important idea that's missing from this conversation. While I'm no scientist, I do try to approach knowledge somewhat methodicaly. I really think knowledge begins with admitting that I don't know. How can I learn, if I already think I know it. I see both sides of this debate making this mistake. Science is supposed to always leave room for new ideas, but with regard to the Intelligent Design argument, it seems that many of the most prominent scientists have really closed the door on even discussing it. They seem to be as fundamentalist about darwinism as any Christian or Muslim is about religion. There's a documentary about this phenomenon called "Expelled: no Intelligence Allowed", I would recommend it to anyone interested in this debate. The Creationist side also tends to completely ignore the other sides arguments, and instead fixates on a very literal translation and interpretation of scripture. This is particularly un-helpful when the scripture in question is the Bible. No disrespect to the Bible is intended here, but it has a lot of contradictory material in it. For the record. I happen to believe in a lot of what the Bible teaches about God and the prophets, and morality in general. Furthermore there's an important aspect of this debate which is not being brought up. There's a big difference between the concept of 'Creationism' which has a top-down approach to science, based on Biblical teachings, and the concept of 'Intelligent Design', which many scientists actually argue is becoming apparent through the study of nature. Of course strict Darwinists will tell you that these scientists are merely 'Creationists' in disguise, I must disagree. If scientists are supposed to be agnostic, as one poster had mentioned previously, they must admit that they don't know whether there's a designer or not. Therefore concluding that there is a designer, could be just as scientific as concluding that there isn't. An Agnostic is someone who believes that metaphysical realities can neither be proven nor disproven. Huston Smith once wrote about this, explaining that science is the study of observable phenomenon, so it really has no bearing on religious beliefs. God, angels, devils, etc... are by definition things which are unseen, and not part of the observable universe. Therefore it is unscientific to try to come to conclusions about them through science. At the same time, as a Muslim, I believe God (Allah) placed signs of His existance throughout creation. Therefor the study of science, without bias, should lead to the truth. I also think that a scientific mindset can help us determine whether a particular religious scripture is true or false. Since scripture is part of the observable universe, it is to some degree subject to scrutiny by science. Again, I hope this helps...
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