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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #240076
12/09/08 09:57
12/09/08 09:57
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 658
germany
Tiles Offline
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Tiles  Offline
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germany
Quote:
Science is supposed to always leave room for new ideas, but with regard to the Intelligent Design argument, it seems that many of the most prominent scientists have really closed the door on even discussing it.


When you have a ball, round, green, touchable, proovable not just by you but a ton of other people, and then somebody comes and BELIEVES it is square and blue instead, would you discuss with him? Or wouldn't you call the ambulance?

When you, as a scientist, having a ton of proofs for evolution, having proofs for the age of the earth, have facts over facts, stuff that NOBODY is able to DISPROOF, and then comes a creationist and says that is all wrong, because he BELIEVES the earth is just a few thousand years old because an old book is saying so, would you discuss?

And adding to that the creationists even play with dispatched cards. They twist facts, they quote out of context until it fits, they lie, they betray. That all to reach their goal that creationism gets teached in school at the same level than it would be science.

Would you discuss with people that twists the word in your mouth? Would you discuss with religious fanatics? Nothing else are creationists.

Still nothing learned from the history?

Have a look at smittys reaction. He impends us that we end like sodom and ghomorra because we are not willing to listen to him. That are the arguments of religion. Listen to us or you will burn in hell. We have the only wisdom. And don't even think of something else, or we will kill you, in the name of the god of love of course.

While at that, nice little god of love. Burns down whole towns and kills people. That for free will, heh ...

Last edited by Tiles; 12/09/08 10:13.

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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Tiles] #240089
12/09/08 11:55
12/09/08 11:55
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043
Germany
Lukas Offline

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Lukas  Offline

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Originally Posted By: smitty
I am right (wing) and proud of it! smile

o.O Do you want to say that you are a Nazi?? confused

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #240101
12/09/08 13:31
12/09/08 13:31
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 8,177
Netherlands
PHeMoX Offline
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PHeMoX  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lukas
Originally Posted By: smitty
I am right (wing) and proud of it! smile

o.O Do you want to say that you are a Nazi?? confused


Right wing is not synonymous for Nazi, in fact, Nazis were socialists and that's usually considered to be left wing politics if I'm not mistaken,

@JulzMighty:

Quote:
if they're protected from other belief systems and then step out into the big bad world where they make Muslim friends who try to convert them and all they can say is "how come i didn't know about any of this?" that would be bad.


A lot of religious people are quite phobic from other religions, they maintain a big distance, do the 'they are different and must be wrong' finger pointing and there's usually an amount of ignorance about said other beliefs.

The system works better because there's this social control and peer-pressure, but also because it's often quite closed towards other belief systems,

Cheers


PHeMoX, Innervision Software (c) 1995-2008

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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: PHeMoX] #240109
12/09/08 14:49
12/09/08 14:49
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19
State of Mind
H
HyperGraph Offline
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HyperGraph  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 19
State of Mind
Quote:
if they're protected from other belief systems and then step out into the big bad world where they make Muslim friends who try to convert them and all they can say is "how come i didn't know about any of this?" that would be bad.


I'm protected from many belief systems by virtue of distance and communication. As an example, I have no idea what some tribal guy in the deepest jungle believes. But if I encounter him and his belief, I don't just go, "Wow! I never knew that!" and then consider converting. :P

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Tiles] #240114
12/09/08 14:58
12/09/08 14:58
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 868
Chicago, IL
Dooley Offline
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Dooley  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tiles

When you, as a scientist, having a ton of proofs for evolution, having proofs for the age of the earth, have facts over facts, stuff that NOBODY is able to DISPROOF, and then comes a creationist and says that is all wrong, because he BELIEVES the earth is just a few thousand years old because an old book is saying so, would you discuss?


There are some things about evolution which are like you say - provable, and contrary to the Bible's teachings. However when it comes down to some of the most important areas, like how life actually began, evolutionists still admit that they don't know. This is where Intelligent Design comes in. Let me repeat that the idea of Intelligent Design is different than Creationism. Intellignet Design does not mean that evolution didn't happen, it's simply an alternate explaination of HOW evolution happened.

On your other point, unfortunatly entire villages of people do burn down in this world. If we believe in God, we have to accept that God allows suffering to happen, and it's really not hard to understand. Suffering is part of life, a part we would probably prefer to do without, but part nonetheless. Suffering actually has a very useful purpose, the pain of touching a fire is no fun, but without it, you might not notice your hand burning off. So for a believer, suffering is just a tool which God uses to teach us about the consequences of our actions. If horrible things can happen in this world, and this world was created by God, then horrible things could also happen in the next world too.

Or we can choose not to believe in God. Either way we will find out the truth when we die...

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #240117
12/09/08 15:18
12/09/08 15:18
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,977
Frankfurt
jcl Offline

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jcl  Offline

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Posts: 27,977
Frankfurt
You mentioned two arguments in your post that are often heard from religious people:
Originally Posted By: Dooley
However when it comes down to some of the most important areas, like how life actually began, evolutionists still admit that they don't know. This is where Intelligent Design comes in. Let me repeat that the idea of Intelligent Design is different than Creationism. Intellignet Design does not mean that evolution didn't happen, it's simply an alternate explaination of HOW evolution happened.

You were talking of biogenesis, not evolution. Evolution is a theory of how life evolved, but not of how it began. Science indeed does not know yet how it began, but that does not mean "Intelligent Design" has any merits: There are at least ten different plausible scientific theories about the start of life. None of them requires an intelligent designer. We just have not enough observations yet to determine which of the theories is correct, or if another theory is required.

Originally Posted By: Dooley
On your other point, unfortunatly entire villages of people do burn down in this world. If we believe in God, we have to accept that God allows suffering to happen, and it's really not hard to understand. Suffering is part of life, a part we would probably prefer to do without, but part nonetheless. Suffering actually has a very useful purpose, the pain of touching a fire is no fun, but without it, you might not notice your hand burning off. So for a believer, suffering is just a tool which God uses to teach us about the consequences of our actions.

More often than not, suffering is not a consequence of our actions. It is caused by diseases, earthquakes or other natural catastrophes. In this case it does not teach anything - besides, the people to be taught are already dead. So why would a God cause suffering?

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: PHeMoX] #240118
12/09/08 15:26
12/09/08 15:26
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043
Germany
Lukas Offline

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Lukas  Offline

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Posts: 2,043
Germany
Originally Posted By: PHeMoX
Originally Posted By: Lukas
Originally Posted By: smitty
I am right (wing) and proud of it! smile

o.O Do you want to say that you are a Nazi?? confused


Right wing is not synonymous for Nazi, in fact, Nazis were socialists and that's usually considered to be left wing politics if I'm not mistaken,

AFAIK left=communist, right=nazi. I have never heard that nazis are "left". When people are talking about nazis, they often talk about "radical right-wing".
However, I don't think (hope) that smitty is a nazi as he doesn't sound like one (no nazi paroles etc). But the "right" confuses me...
If "right" doesn't mean nazi, what does it mean then? confused

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #240121
12/09/08 15:48
12/09/08 15:48
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
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ventilator  Offline
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #240122
12/09/08 15:48
12/09/08 15:48
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,977
Frankfurt
jcl Offline

Chief Engineer
jcl  Offline

Chief Engineer

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,977
Frankfurt
In the USA, "right wing" does not mean Nazi. It's largely tolerated and you can even become President.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: jcl] #240132
12/09/08 16:17
12/09/08 16:17
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,043
Germany
Lukas Offline

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Lukas  Offline

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Posts: 2,043
Germany
Ok, I see.

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