I care because we've already been at witchburning, at torture in the name of a god, at war in the name of a god. And that wasn't some extremists, that came from the top. And i don't want to let this happen again. Religion never did anything good in the past.

what top? God's the only "top" in our beliefs, and you don't believe He exists, so what's this "top" you speak of?

"torture in the name of a god"? someone could drown a cat in your name, but does that mean it's indicative of your values?

what if someone killed religious people in the name of atheism? what if someone recruited people from a Rolling Stones fan-club to work in acts of terrorism by tricking them into believing Mick Jagger would want them to?

you know almost nothing about Christianity.

julz

There is no god at the top. Just some religious fanatics.

I mean the religious leaders. The same that forbids the useage of pill and condom and has stocks of companies that produces them.

I talk about the worlds biggest secret service. With killer commands.

I mean witch hunt. That has cost thousands of women their life. And was torture in the name of a god. Honestly i see shrift as a torture too. But that's another chapter. I mean crusade. Which was a complete war in the name of a god. I talk about official stuff. Known by all. Done by all.

I talk about telling the people that bad things will happen to them when they don't do what priests wants them to do. I talk about fear here. The weapon of religion.

I talk about having control over the people. It's all about power, but not the power of a god. It's the power to control the masses. The only reason why religion exists.

And creationism is just another try to get more control over the masses by religious ratters. It is again a crusade. Currently just with words, by faking and lying. But it is just a matter of time when nobody stops them.



I grew up catholic

Believe me. I know more about christianity than i ever wanted to. I am not talking about what ifs here, i talk about facts.

i agree. the catholic confession should be forbidden (at least for children). it's sick and can be damaging. i am still very angry about my confession experiences.

(while religion clearly is on the decline there still is a lot of pressure (especially in rural areas) to have children take part in christening and first communion and confession and all of that.)

point being...?

first, i'm not going to go into Catholicism vs Protestant, but that control and hierarchy is a mostly Catholic phenomenon.

secondly, most people i know who "grew up catholic" know hardly anything at all about Catholicism. most with a proper Catholic upbringing are aware of that and know to differentiate themselves from those who just "grew up catholic", as "label catholics" are so common. and an understanding of Catholicism isn't necessarily an understanding of Christianity .

proper Christianity never prescribed much power to people. Catholics will often argue in favour of their hierarchical system with references to Jesus sending out the Apostles, saying this infers power to priests as well.

Christianity was not created for humanly power, it's abused for humanly power.

just like alcohol, sex, drugs, money, and even power are good things but can be abused.

julz

Huh? The point is the answer to your statement. And that you are wrong with that i know nothing about christianity.



Don't tell me what i know or not know. I know that better than you

Well, I have had a look at it all, not just consumed and then quickly forgotten. I have proven it. And have started to think by myself. I found lots of inconsistency, i found out that there is not just black and white like the bible wants to tell us. And that was the moment where i stopped being catholic and have left the church. Quickly.



... or you will burn in hell ...

No power, no pressure? And that's not just a catholic or even a christian phenomenon.



It's the other way around my friend. It all started when the first shaman found out that it gives him a big advantage by being the shaman.

Religion is always abuse.

okay, i'm not going to quote many chunks, coz it'll just be quotes of quotes of quotes...

i already explained why i asked "point being?". i didn't tell you how good a Catholic you were or grew up as, or whatever. i told you that telling me you "grew up catholic" tells me nothing whatsoever about your understanding of Christianity.

there's an enormous lot to being Catholic that the Bible doesn't tell us. if we just look at the Bible, we find Christianity as it's meant to be: accept God as your Saviour and you're saved. Catholicism has its own inconsistencies that stem from un-Biblical tradition, which teaches about all these things you have to do for God's favour, whereas Christianity as the Bible teaches says we can't earn righteousness; none of us are righteous; but having faith in Jesus will put us in God's good book.
i didn't say there was no power; i said there is very little power. mature Christians are asked to encourage and teach other Christians using the Bible so that they can see if it's truth or not. powerful figures such as the Pope get power from the people who follow him, not from Christianity.

and i never said "no pressure". but now that you mention it... the burn in Hell thing isn't much pressure on a Christian, because we can have confidence in God and have no need to fear Hell. it puts a little more pressure on a Catholic, who is taught that mortal sins that you don't confess at a confession will cause you to go to Hell, and how well you act in your life determines how much purging you need before going to Heaven.

julz

And i have answered that i do, that i know better what i know than you. Wrong answer? Seems so ...



Question, murder is sin, right? But would the imaginary killer of Hitler also burn in the same way in hell as a mass murder? What when the mass murder would be ill, when he would be unable to feel? Such diseases exists.

Heaven? Hell? That is black and white. This doesn't work in life, what makes you think this will work in a life after life? There is no Heaven. And there is no Hell. That said, saved from what, saved where, saved how?

Saved?

What the heck gives you or anybody else the right to even think of rescueing me from anything? What gives you the right to say i burn in a hell for this and that reason? What the right to say i will reach a heaven when i do this or that?

I already had a look at the told concept and decided that this concept is too inconsistent, too cheap, and proveable wrong. Leave me alone with this nonsense. Bible is nothing else than a tool to control people. An old tool. I am not interested in lies and ancient views of the world. We live now, not before 2000 years. And i live much comfortabler without the chains of an ancient faith.

Point is, i will not go to your house, ring you out of your bed, and try to convince you from my point of view. I don't mind what you believe. Believe in the holy shoe when it brings you fun. But Christians do mind. Spread the holy word they say. And christians does even more with the try to establish creationism and Intelligent design as an alternative to science. They want the control over knowledge back. And in that case i have to resist. We already escaped such a dark chapter before. We have already seen who the saviours are and how the saving works ...

Which leads me back to creationism. It is faith. And that is a private thing, not a public one. It is disproven. It is at least 2000 years old and collides heavily with nowadays knowledge. It has nothing left in school. School is made to teach knowledge, not fairy tales.

No he won't answer, instead you will consider certain events as answering from God. This is called wishful thinking and it can convince people that a certain event of pure chance has some kind of deeper meaning... but only because those people were waiting for or rather looking for an event that fits their view.

In short, the basic superstition that can be found in just about any religion. As we know, superstition is a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, but instead on wishful thinking or fear.



Heaven as a concept doesn't make sense anyway.

Cheers

Dooley,
I thought you may find this site interesting. It is a former PLO terrorist.
http://www.shoebat.com/