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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: smitty] #240684
12/11/08 22:08
12/11/08 22:08
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Lukas Offline

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Ok, watch it later then, the essential is that you watch it at all smile

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #240687
12/11/08 22:20
12/11/08 22:20
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smitty Offline
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ok, I will watch it later, but if it is vulgar like the things Larry posts, then I will turn it off.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: smitty] #240699
12/11/08 23:37
12/11/08 23:37
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Dooley Offline
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Smitty, I watched it. It is not vulgar, there is no nudity or anything. But it makes an argument which seeks to disprove God's existence. I think you could handle it.

Lukas, your argument about God's opinion changing is invalid. Let me explain. You stated that if we assume God created the universe and its laws, then they should be perfect. Therefor there would be no reason for God to interfere with events on Earth, like answering prayers, performing miracles etc...

However, this argument assumes that we know God's intention behind creating the universe. It assumes that He was trying to create some machine which works perfectly. It's actually taking materialistic philosophy and applying it to God.

God's purpose, as most religions would present it, is to test mankind, and to sort out the good from the bad. You can call it heaven and hell, karma, whatever, but the idea is the same. The universe is a moral experiment, not a physical one.

As I've stated before, I don't think God's existence is something subject to scientific inquiry. Everyone will draw their own conclusions from the same data. A believer will look at suffering and see God's hand, while a disbeliever will look at the same scene, and be convinced that there's no God.

The prayer thing is the same, you can always draw different conclusions from how or whether our prayers are answered. It does not change the fact that God either does or does not exist. One side is right and one is wrong. We will not know for sure until we are dead. This alone scares me enough to side with God.

I know I will die one day, and I have no idea what will happen. How can I be so arrogent as to assume that I know what will happen after I die? So to prepare for the unfortunate possibility of a Hell, I try to be good, and ask God for His mercy etc...

If I'm wrong, it won't matter to anyone. If the disbeliever is wrong, he'll be regretting his decision for all of eternity. It's like playing Russian Roulette. You might win the money, sure, but is it really worth the risk?

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #240705
12/12/08 01:03
12/12/08 01:03
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JibbSmart Offline
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@Lukas: God's miracles are part of His design. your argument assumes God didn't want to interfere in the first place, and is wrong.

@Dooley: that last line you said reminds me of something very similar i said on this forum recently.

@Smitty: i find it really interesting that you find that connection between HyperGraph and Dan. i don't see that connection at all; or at least not enough to think they're one and the same.

julz

EDIT: i watched the video. people who vouch for the "logic" and "rationality" of such a video show how much it means to them to reject God.

the first argument doesn't really go anywhere. it takes 6 or so minutes to explain to us a very basic idea. "you're a smart person" he says, as if talking to someone in kindergarten. just because there's no "scientific" evidence for God, doesn't mean He isn't real.

the second argument about "scientific evidence" against is equally useless. if someone tells you you can't fold paper of any size in half more than 7 times, and gives you statistical evidence, and then you do it 12 times, who are you going to believe?

here's an important question: why do atheists even care? Christians want other people to be saved, for various reasons. why do atheists even care? and if it's the "religion kills witches and tall new york buildings" reason, don't bother. that's neither the fault of religion in general nor Christianity and Islam. it's a shame extremists are always labeled with the religion they claim to be such devout and spiritually mature members of.

Last edited by JulzMighty; 12/12/08 01:33. Reason: watched the video.

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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #240706
12/12/08 01:10
12/12/08 01:10
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smitty Offline
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Wow, Dooley! You are so right with everything you said! You sound like you are so close to the truth! The thing is that no matter how good we try to be, we can never measure up to God's standards, because He is a holy and sinless God. That is why Jesus Christ who is the only begotten Son of God (God in the flesh) came to earth to die for our sins. Being God He is the only one who could be our sacrifice because He is sinless. But it is because He rose from the dead that we too can live forever! Please keep searching, Dooley. You sound like you are so close!

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: JibbSmart] #240708
12/12/08 01:14
12/12/08 01:14
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smitty Offline
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Quote:
@Smitty: i find it really interesting that you find that connection between HyperGraph and Dan. i don't see that connection at all; or at least not enough to think they're one and the same.


Julz, if I discover that I am wrong then I will be the first to admit it and apologize, but I think Dan Silverman is Hyper. Pun intended.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: smitty] #240711
12/12/08 01:33
12/12/08 01:33
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JibbSmart Offline
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lol, sure thing!


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I made KarBOOM!
Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: JibbSmart] #240714
12/12/08 01:53
12/12/08 01:53
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smitty Offline
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I got bored with that video after a couple of minutes.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: smitty] #240729
12/12/08 07:29
12/12/08 07:29
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Dooley Offline
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Originally Posted By: smitty
The thing is that no matter how good we try to be, we can never measure up to God's standards, because He is a holy and sinless God.


Thanks for trying to help. I'm aware of this, and Islam teaches the same thing. There is a big difference still, the idea of Jesus being a sacrifice for our sins is not present in Islam. We believe it is through God's mercy that our sins are forgiven, not through our deeds, as many have accused. But God has commandments, and fulfilling these is part of our faith. Jesus said so too. The book of James in the Bible makes this argument very clearly, I suggest reading it.

However, it has little to do with teaching Creationism in schools, so I will hold off further discussion for another time.

If you want more details about my understanding of the Bible, see this article: http://www.schmidt-gallery.com/Bible_in_islam_v008.pdf

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #240730
12/12/08 08:16
12/12/08 08:16
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Tiles Offline
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Quote:
Lukas, if you keep asking Him, then He WILL answer.


Not a single word in 42 years. My toaster is more communicative. Your god doesn't exist, that`s why it is so quiet. And you don't talk to him neither. Else "he" would've been able to answer my simple question.

He is almighty you said. But is limited to speak through a burning bush? Is limited to let others do the work? Is limited to send menaces instead burning the baddies down directly? Speaks not to everybody? Is limited to send his "son"? Breaks his own rules by committing adultery with a wife called Maria (poor Joseph, horned by a god)? I could go on with an endless list of weird things connected to that. Doesn't really sound almighty to me. Doesn't even sound as a god to me, as changeable as "he" acts.

When i would be a god i would snip with my fingers. And done.

Sorry, but for exact that reason that all just means one thing to me: there is no god. At least not as described in the current religions. There is just a fictional goddess which is introduced by some religious weirdoes.


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