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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: AlbertoT] #241096
12/14/08 13:49
12/14/08 13:49
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Tiles Offline
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Quote:
the Bible doesn't teach an age for the world.


Well, first there is the hypothesis that god made the world in seven days. Stands word by word in the bible and is a very detailed and exact timespan. And then we have the detailled bloodline back to adam and eve. There are no gaps in the bloodline. All members fine listed one by one (which makes it also hard to incorporate 99% of the rest of the human population into that by the way. Proof of another lie ... ). Now let's calculate the generations in years. Makes around 5000 years plus seven days. Oh wait, eight days. He had a little rest ...

Last edited by Tiles; 12/14/08 13:50.

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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Tiles] #241108
12/14/08 15:22
12/14/08 15:22
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Lukas Offline

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Hmm well, I read the very beginning of Genesis again...

This is what I noticed:

God creates light before he created sun. But light requires sun and it's proven that daylight comes from the sun. Strange.
God creates plants before he creates the sun. But plants need the sun to survive. So the plants would have died, especially if day means millions of years.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Lukas] #241112
12/14/08 15:50
12/14/08 15:50
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sebcrea Offline
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Everyone who actually believes that the earth is 6000 years old and was created by god should also stop using there computers right away. We humans know that our life will end so we make up stories, but that doesn't make such things true the truth is that there was no creation and there is no god. The quicker you accept it the better of you gonna be, religion of all kind is just a bunch of rubbish bullshit that is made up to control people and to keep them in line.

That maybe sound hard or cruel but reality is not always likable in fact reality is very cruel. Should this been taught at schools ? Maybe as fiction but nothing more then about fairies or goblins, the bible is nice fiction but thats all there is to it.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: sebcrea] #241128
12/14/08 17:34
12/14/08 17:34
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Tiles Offline
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Quote:
Hmm well, I read the very beginning of Genesis again...

This is what I noticed:

God creates light before he created sun. But light requires sun and it's proven that daylight comes from the sun. Strange.
God creates plants before he creates the sun. But plants need the sun to survive. So the plants would have died, especially if day means millions of years.


You can fill whole libraries with such bible inconsistencies wink


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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Tiles] #241140
12/14/08 18:27
12/14/08 18:27
Joined: Jul 2000
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Dan Silverman Offline
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Quote:
God creates light before he created sun. But light requires sun and it's proven that daylight comes from the sun. Strange.


This is not one that I would consider a Bible inconsistency. Is the sun the only source of light? I have light in my room at night and the sun is not the one providing it. I once looked at it from a 3D modeler's perspective. When I start to create a 3D model the environment is evenly lit by light coming from all directions in the 3D view ports. However, once I place an actual light (point light, area light, etc) the uniform light goes away and is replaced by the new light source. This is typically how a 3D modeling package works (3D Studio MAX, Modo, etc). Could not the Bible reference be something similar? Could there not have been a temporary light source that filled everything until the sun was created? Now, I am not saying I take this story to be truly how it all happened, but I am saying that it is not a Bible contradiction.

Quote:
God creates plants before he creates the sun. But plants need the sun to survive. So the plants would have died, especially if day means millions of years.


But most creationists believe the world was created in six days. Therefore, could not plants survive an entire day without the sun? Sure they could. Also, plants can grow without the sun. Plant a seed in a pot with dirt and hide that pot under your sink in your kitchen. Make sure to water it. Doesn't the plant grow? In fact, it will grow very straight and tall without the sun to HINDER its growth. Sure, plants need the sun, but they don't just instantly die without it either.

I am not trying to defend the Bible here. However, if someone wants to bring up contradictions of the Bible then they should at least bring up legitimate ones. If someone wants to say that the Bible's story of creation does not match up with science's theory of evolution, the age of the earth and bio-genesis, then that can be legitimately compared and contrasted. But to take something like light being before the sun and saying that is a contradiction in the Bible ... no. That story may be opposed to scientific teaching, but it is not a contradiction in which the Bible contradicts itself.


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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dan Silverman] #241142
12/14/08 18:36
12/14/08 18:36
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline
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Quote:
Well, first there is the hypothesis that god made the world in seven days. Stands word by word in the bible and is a very detailed and exact timespan. And then we have the detailled bloodline back to adam and eve. There are no gaps in the bloodline. All members fine listed one by one (which makes it also hard to incorporate 99% of the rest of the human population into that by the way. Proof of another lie ... ). Now let's calculate the generations in years. Makes around 5000 years plus seven days. Oh wait, eight days. He had a little rest ...


This is incorrect. First of all, the Bible does not say that God made the world in seven days and rested on the eighth. It says he made it in six days and rested on the seventh.

Secondly, there bloodline in Genesis is not necessarily without gaps. You have to understand the ancient mindset as well as the language in which the bloodline was recorded. Most ancient genealogies have gaps in them. Many read like the bloodline in Genesis. The word "son" or "begat" does not literally mean "son" as we take to today (not in the original language and not by the understanding of the ones that wrote it). The word "son" ("ben" or "bar" in Hebrew) showed a decent or a genealogical connection. It did not necessarily mean that there was a father/son relationship. It could mean one was the grandfather or even a great-great grandfather. But it did show direct decent. The term "begat" (in the original language) did the same thing.

In many ancient genealogies there were gaps. The authors often left out people that just were not considered important enough to include. Others were included only to show decent. The ancient mindset was not as concerned (historically) with getting every little detail correct and in chronological order. Thinking like this is fairly recent.

In any case, most creationists claim the earth (and all of creation) could be up to 20,000 years old and not just 6,000+. Again, I am not saying I agree with this, but if someone wants to point out a Bible contradiction then they need to try to find a legitimate one and not harp on things like this.


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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Dooley] #241144
12/14/08 18:40
12/14/08 18:40
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Baunatal, Germany
Tobias Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dooley

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?" (Quran 21:30)

The heavens and the earth were all together, and God seperated them. How would an Arab merchant in the 6th century know this? There are many such statements in the Quran which have left scientists baffled as to how it was written so long ago, when theories on the origin of the universe were pretty unscientific.

The parting was in fact from 1500 years before the Quran, in the Enuma Elish from Babylon where Marduk parted the waters with his sword, and created the dry land. Muhammed could well have known this myth.

Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Tobias] #241145
12/14/08 18:44
12/14/08 18:44
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Dan Silverman Offline
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Quote:
"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?" (Quran 21:30)

The heavens and the earth were all together, and God seperated them. How would an Arab merchant in the 6th century know this? There are many such statements in the Quran which have left scientists baffled as to how it was written so long ago, when theories on the origin of the universe were pretty unscientific.


Please forgive my ignorance (and, no, I did not read your original post, Dooley), but what is this talking about? What in that verse from the Qu'ran is even remotely scientific that a scientist would be baffled by it? Again, please forgive my ignorance.

Quote:
The heavens and the earth were all together, and God seperated them. How would an Arab merchant in the 6th century know this?


Because a Jewish scribe penned it down some 2-3000 years earlier? The book of Genesis predates the Qu'ran by that much.


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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Tobias] #241146
12/14/08 18:45
12/14/08 18:45
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Tiles Offline
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Quote:
This is incorrect. First of all, the Bible does not say that God made the world in seven days and rested on the eighth. It says he made it in six days and rested on the seventh.


I stand corrected, thanks smile

Quote:
Secondly, there bloodline in Genesis is not necessarily without gaps. You have to understand the ancient mindset as well as the language in which the bloodline was recorded.


I know that in the nowadays bible nearly not a single word is the same than in the first bible. Old greece is a devlish language. And that was not the only translation.

Point is, the whole christians believe in the written word, as it is now. So it makes no difference what i think about ancient mindset.

Last edited by Tiles; 12/14/08 18:47.

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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES! [Re: Tiles] #241147
12/14/08 18:47
12/14/08 18:47
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Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline
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Quote:
I stand corrected, thanks smile


Not a problem smile


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