Rubbish, if someone really things a god is needed to knock apples from trees he or she should really check their minds for education. We are the fith ape and just because you doesn't like the fact of evolution that doesn't mean the creation myth is true all of a sudden.

Iam proud to be an ape:)

We do not need to assume anything beyond our comprehension. Instead people should accept that we are limited in knowledge.



You mean like wind starting a treadmill? Okey, but using the same analogy, why would wind create a treadmill just so it can make it rotate? In my opinion it doesn't make sense to assume something outside of causality started causality.

Of course the easy way out would be saying God created both wind and treadmills so to speak, but it would mean he quite impossibly made himself or something.



Not at all. God as the answer for the 'gaps' in our knowledge is simply an invention. It's not an observation and it's definitely not even something that would make sense as 'answer' for a lot of reasons.

God can not be observed, but future observations would definitely give us more insight into the first and beyond as far as what happened in the beginning goes.

Some things aren't easy to understand, perhaps we think in terms of start and end because we are mortal and limited in time. Perhaps the theory of collapse and expanse makes the most sense, perhaps the big bang was just 'one of many'.

It really makes no sense to assume a God was responsible.

Cheers

I don't think it's illogical to assume, when we encounter a detailed language, that there is an intelligence behind it's writing. This is exactly what scientists have found, at a microscopic level, inside the living cell.

It is not absolute, testable proof of God (or of any religion in particular), but it certainly can be reasonably interpreted as evidence of an intelligent designer.

Another thing that you're missing is the idea of a claim. Prophets came with a claim that God has communicated with them. OK, there are no prophets around today, but what about the people who were around? Let's assume (just for the sake of argument) that we were around at the time of Jesus, and that he did perform the miracles mentioned in the Bible. If you had witnessed these miracles, would you believe in his claim?

This is not the end of my argument, I just want to see the response...

You state this, but without reference. Often people confuse complexity with intelligence. Frankly, when a volcano erupts, the aftermath is very complex, but it does not speak of a designer or an intelligence behind it. It simply shows that the eruption followed well known laws (gravity, etc).



Not necessarily. The problem tends to be that the "unknown" gets classified as being "god's domain" when it may be nothing more than "the unknown". Just because we don't know why something is complex does not necessitate an intelligent designer. That may be one consideration, but not the only one. Look into things like quantum physics, chaos theory and the like to see other possible ideas.



That would depend. There are people that claim to be doing miracles today. Look at people like Benny Hinn. People pass out at his touch. He claims to have miraculously healed people, etc. However, I don't buy into a single one of his claims.

Secondly, concerning Jesus, a casual reading of the New Testament shows that Jesus was very well known in his day. The New Testament records that even King Herod wanted to see Jesus perform miracles, so he was known by the leadership in the nation at that time (according to the New Testament). Obviously the people in the region, Jews, Romans, Greeks, etc, were familiar with him (again, according to the New Testament). However, history is vastly void of anyone else writing about him. There are no contemporary sources citing either Jesus or his miracles. This seems odd considering how many people supposedly knew him, knew of his miracle working power and even how far up the chain of command he was known. All we really have is the New Testament's word that he did any miracles at all and that word is highly suspect.

There are plenty of nutcases claiming to be prophets or that they have communicated with God, but they usually end up in psychiatric hospitals.



No, I would still suspect the guy of trickery and clever use of nowadays well known illusions.

Cheers

Question is why an almighty being needs to use such dirty tricks. And when it uses this dirty tricks, why so cheap ones?

i'll assume you mean windmill.
but think about it. if we don't assume something outside of causality started causality, then we assume either something within the bounds of causality may have started it, or it never had a beginning. the first is a contradiction (what caused the start of causality?); the second, well, that means for everything that has happened, there was something before that that caused it, going back infinitely.
[sarcasm] yeah, coz healing sick people and preaching wisdom is such a dirty trick. [/sarcasm]

julz

We talk about an almighty being here. And compared to being almighty these so called miracles are very cheap tricks. Not a single one that cannot be done by humans. Not a single one that can really be called a miracle. Like doing one that lasts until now. He is almighty, so why not something than putting a pyramid at its tip and hold it in that position for the rest of the days, being against all natural laws? THAT kind of miracles would convince me.

Most of them are lies anyway, and not wisdom. Every prophet can sooner or later walk across water, heal dead sick people, change water into wine etc. . Just depends to find enough people for the telephone game.

Have you heard, he had a rest at a river so that the thursty could drink. Have you heard he has ordered a barrel of water for the thursty. Have you heard he has ordered a barrel of wine for the thursty. Have you heard, he has changed a barrel of water into wine ... and here we are. That's the way miracles are made

Have you heard, he is so powerful, i bet he could heal sick people. Have you heard, he has healed a sick person. And here we are again

Or that way: Hmm, i have no clue how to convince this guy to believe in my god. But he better does, i need a few more guys to help my idea. Mmh, i have it. I tell him that my god is much stronger than his. He can change water into wine. Wohoo. If that doesn't convince him i don't know what will

Lies, fake, illusion, cheating. That is the weapons of religion. And we have seen these weapons in use in this thread more than once.

Question. Jesus knew he will end at the cross, dying, right? That is very close to suicide for me. Isn't suicide a dead sin? Heh, your god burns in its own hell

Oh, you mean he didn't know that he will end at the cross, dying? Hmm, i thought your god is almighty?

suicide's a sin, as is murder, because we shouldn't end a life that's been given by God. God can take away whatever life He wants, especially if it serves a purpose. Jesus' death was his life's purpose, and He, being God, knew that.

julz

Err, what?

And again we are at the concept of black and white, hell and heaven. As you said, suicide is a sin. But your jesus made suicide to do a good thing. Which doesn't make sense. Because he did a big sin with that, the reason doesn't matter, sin stays sin, and will burn in hell therefore.

It's your concept