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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: Lukas]
#241858
12/19/08 12:18
12/19/08 12:18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538 WA, Australia
JibbSmart
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Expert
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Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
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"but there must be a reason for the Big Bang" The big bang needn't have a cause. but God does? that was your argument before. The claim that a "god" lives "outside causality" contradicts itself. According to the claim that god influences us and we can get punished by him, events in the real world can cause things in your fantasy world (e.g. make god angry) and the other way round (e.g. genocide in the old testament). So events that happen outside causality need a cause, which includes the creation of god. So there can't be something "outside causality" that influences our world. quod erat demonstrandum no. i don't live in my pool, but i can interfere with it. the Big Bang wasn't "within" causality (as you said yourself it didn't need a cause) yet it interfered with everything. just to clarify: i meant that God's existence is beyond the bounds of causality; not that He is trapped outside of it, and i don't think that implication was made. and yes, i did say i was done here, but that was with specific regard to my discussion with Tiles, as we were both going in circles. but i don't think i need to say anymore. we'll find ourselves in the same position, Lukas, if we keep going at this rate. julz
Formerly known as JulzMighty. I made KarBOOM!
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: JibbSmart]
#241864
12/19/08 13:52
12/19/08 13:52
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 658 germany
Tiles
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germany
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Big Bang is neither inside causality nor is it outside causality. It MADE causality. And it IS MADE by causality. It is both at the same time, a Paradoxon. Because without time no causality. And Big Bang started room and time. Means there is no before. Which means there cannot be somebody before the Big Bang. Not in a room because there is no room, nor in a time, because there is no time before the Big Bang.
Last edited by Tiles; 12/19/08 13:54.
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: Lukas]
#241888
12/19/08 18:47
12/19/08 18:47
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
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Our intuition claims that the existance of matter entails a creator
This is so rooted in our DNA that even the atheist scientists ,in the past assumed that our universe must not have a start
From this point of view the big bang is, despite the alternative theories, such as the multi universe , a ace in the hands of the religious people
After the announcement of the big bang theory, a Pope officialy declared " Finally science meets religion "
The point is that for modern quantum physics " something must exist " In other words the existance of matter is not that mistery anymore
Even though none of us can seriously grasp such claim, it is supported by experimental evidences
Last edited by AlbertoT; 12/19/08 19:15.
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: AlbertoT]
#241905
12/19/08 22:28
12/19/08 22:28
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 868 Chicago, IL
Dooley
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Posts: 868
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So events that happen outside causality need a cause, which includes the creation of god. So there can't be something "outside causality" that influences our world. The big bang needn't have a cause.
This is the problem. God requires a cause, but the Big Bang doesn't... That's not fair. Your ignoring your own argument, applying it to God, but allowing the Big Bang to slip through. That a double standard.
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: Lukas]
#241909
12/19/08 22:46
12/19/08 22:46
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 353
amy
Senior Member
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Senior Member
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Posts: 353
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nothing -> god -> universe nothing -> universe It simply is one unknown less. At least there is evidence for the presence of the universe. Something that can´t really be claimed for a God of any kind.
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Re: Q: Should creationism be taught in shools? -- A: YES!
[Re: Lukas]
#241911
12/19/08 23:02
12/19/08 23:02
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
AlbertoT
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Posts: 1,245
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As Tiles said, the big bang is the BEGIN of cause and doesn't need a cause. Well ,the big bang by itself entails a start thus a creator As I said the catholic church was very happy about this theory The point is Can a quantistic random fluctuation be the supposed " cause " of the big bang ? Apparentely , yes according to quantum mechanics,at least in theory
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