Some of those who strapped bombs to themselves may have been affected by religious fervor but not all - not even most. Many received payments to their families in what seems a hopeless situation and many desired revenge for the deaths being inflicted upon them. Many see the foreign forces as no different than the imperial powers that once subjugated them. Ask yourself what would be the reaction of the youth you know in the Netherlands or the USA if your country held hostile forces all around, if tanks moved down your main streets, if bombs and bullets killed your family and friends. What would your state of mind be? I can see life feeling like torture, being depressed and hopeless and wanting to kill myself - offered an excuse to view that suicide as an act of bravery or martyrdom instead I might take it. If religion did not provide that excuse then I could accept another.



That is the true essence of religion. Everyone I personally know that is involved with religion preaches this and tries to live it. Sure, there are always some flakes drawn in but most people really want to do the right thing. I see charity and caring and reaching out to people everywhere I look within the church. I've worked in the church and I see generosity of spirit and sincere concern for others. Or does government and science and logic without religion result in some type of Utopian state? History shows it does not. The flaw is in us, not in religion.

It may be convenient to use religion as a scape goat to blame all the ills of the world but that to me is illogical, unreasonable, an avoidance of the truth and our individual responsibility.

The pope says it is bad to do contraception. It is the leader of one of the biggest religions out there. Would you agree with me that this person is not ill?

Would you also agree with me that it is not only nonsense to prohibit contraception, but also very evil to forbid the useage of condoms in a country that has a big aids problem?

And that it is even more evil to do that in a country that has a big problem of too big populations?

The flaw is the religion in this case. Love and increase says the book ...

Just one example

I see the noble idea behind. But it always gets perverted. History has already shown what a religious utopia looks like. Look in the medieval, look in the near east. Control over people and their mind. Control over knowledge. Witch burning. Crusade. So called holy wars.

And the try to teach creationism and intelligent design instead science. Again religion tries to control knowledge, tries to get the control over people back. Very noble ...

You're slightly missing the point. People are simply vulnerable in such situations. Very much like people in Birma are accepting some western strangers preaching for as long as they're taken care of with medicine and so on, it's the same thing but more positive. A person in need will do whatever it takes and a lot of people take advantage of that, whether to associate a certain belief with medicine or care or a suicide bomber getting money doesn't really matter.



I would feel angry for sure, but at the same time this is why Israeli forces shouldn't be in Gaza and why coalition forces should never have been in Iraq or even Afghanistan. I don't think these wars really solve anything, and in case of Israel we all have known this for years.



I agree, but at the same time it's very much a matter of perspective. The rich helping out the not-so rich, in the end no one is going to change the world. Perhaps I'm pessimistic.



I don't believe a Utopian state is possible, we're long passed that opportunity. But in my opinion it has nothing to do with humans being flawed or even religion, but the mere fact that inequality is necessary for progress in the broadest sense possible. You know, I totally support donations and what not to 3rd world countries, but truth is we basically need them in the state they are now. Every healthy country means more competition on the global market.

Our world as it is, is based around an extremely selfish system, prosperity just isn't something you can share with this many people. Averaging everything out to a single standard will definitely mean progress will stop and might even cause very practical issues. Truth is we as a species have already been overpopulating for far too long.



No, that would be too easy, but I still think many issues are directly caused by religion. You are totally right about the individual responsibility, however many people just seem to easily fall for religious stories. Apparently it's a very effective tool to bypass individual responsibility on a psychological level. A group is stronger, individuality matters less and suddenly certain actions or ideas seem justified.



I agree. Many religions seem to feel vulnerable when it comes to science, so they seek ways to protect their interests. It may sound like a conspiracy, but it's not...

Cheers

You want to see what Creationists are teaching?

friends of god - evolution

They are teaching to impressionable young students that most scientific theories are false. Not just Big Bang/Evolution

They are denying that either dinosaurs existed and that the fossils were either placed by God or dinos roamed around until the alleged Great Flood 5000 years ago.

They are denying the fact that every single galaxy besides our own is beyond 6000 light years away and thus we would be unable to see them yet.

They are denying that there is a red shift, which has been confirmed for the past 60-70 years.

They are denying every single fossil and artifact that has been found to be older than 6000 years old.

They are denying genetics, and the similarities found in genes in chimpanzees.

They are being willfully ignorant of what observable science has shown. They are denying a mountain of evidence for a stupid 5000 year old book.

The only evidence they give for this is that stupid 5000 year old book.

And they are teaching this to our children?

This is why I am against teaching creationism.

I'm afraid I have gone off topic on my posts but I appreciated the responses -even if I am always somewhat surprised by the vehemence and rancor that seems to surround discussion of this subject.



I've thought about this from time to time and think this might be a worthwhile subject for another thread.

Anyway, my final bit here to put me back on topic. Should creationism be taught in school? No - other than possibly a disclaimer at the beginning of the year (?) directing those interested in exploring this view to discuss it with their pastor or other religious leader.

I fully agree, it's definitely a very good idea to explain different religions to people. I apologize when my replies seem a bit fanatic at times,

Cheers

Hell, I think Comparative Religion should even be taught as a mandatory High School course.

A class that overviews the major religions in the world in a completely objective format.

In this world, with Islam dominating politics in the Middle East, and Christianity trying exert its weakening grip on the west, it is important to study religions. Religion is a part of culture.

Also, the US is a diverse democracy. President Obama described the US as not being a Christian nation, but a Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/Etc/Etc nation. It would help the welfare of our nation to understand the religions of people who could very well be our next door neighbor.

If you read the " rules of engagement for a christian soldier in the new world " issued by the Spanish government in the 16th century you would be surprised
They could be approved by the organization of the united nations in the 21th century
I would not be so sure about the USA army ( before Obama )
I know you were in ther army

You may argue that the conquistadores did not excatly follow the recomandation of their government but they had also to do with populations who were used to human sacrifices

We must be fair

Religion leads to extremism both in good and in evil

The point is that the bad guys alwayes prevailed over the good ones
That's why I am scared of any fundamentalism , including comunism , even though it is hard to deny their ethical foundations

Of course it remains to be seen if that's a good excuse to respond to such things in a similar or worse manner as the inquisition did.

Also, generally speaking, the human sacrifice undeveloped savages kind of image isn't quite that accurate. The civilizations they were dealing with were actually pretty advanced when it comes to social structure, laws and what not for the most part,

Cheers

I know that it is politically correct to claim that the the bad guy is alwayes the white man , but it is a ridicoulus masochist fashion