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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: AlbertoT]
#259408
04/06/09 00:08
04/06/09 00:08
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Blade280891
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like the fact that energy exists. you cannot create energy, you can only change the way it exists, i.e. make it liquid or turn it into gas. Huh? since when can energy be transfered into something with physical properties?
My Avatar Randomness V2"Someone get me to the doctor, and someone call the nurse And someone buy me roses, and someone burned the church"
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: Blade280891]
#259695
04/07/09 09:29
04/07/09 09:29
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EvilSOB
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like the fact that energy exists. you cannot create energy, you can only change the way it exists, i.e. make it liquid or turn it into gas. Huh? since when can energy be transfered into something with physical properties? It not currently within humans skills to do so yet, to the best of my knowledge. But mathematics has proven it can be done, with the right tools, and the H-Bomb is a fine example of matter becoming energy. If you agree with scientifical theory, how can you explain the "big bang"? what was before it? if energy and matter cannot appear and disappear then where did they come from? Energy and matter are the same thing in the same way as water-ice and water are the same thing. Matter can become energy (easy) and energy can become matter(hard)(see reply to Blade above). Explain the big bang? Easy. BEFORE the big bang, ALL matter and energy in the universe was crammed into a single point so small and hot that matter itself couldnt exists except as energy. Thats about all there is to say. THE big bang was that single point, for no explainable reason (ie maybe God done it), simply exploded! AFTER the big bang, all the energy in the universe exploded out from that point, most "cooling" enough to form raw matter, which (through the action of stars that accreted out of the raw matter) slowly de-volved into the complex matter we know today.
"There is no fate but what WE make." - CEO Cyberdyne Systems Corp. A8.30.5 Commercial
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: EvilSOB]
#259730
04/07/09 11:51
04/07/09 11:51
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Blade280891
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It not currently within humans skills to do so yet, to the best of my knowledge. But mathematics has proven it can be done, with the right tools, and the H-Bomb is a fine example of matter becoming energy.
Matter to energy is not the same as energy to matter And currently it is impossible to change the way energy exists XD
My Avatar Randomness V2"Someone get me to the doctor, and someone call the nurse And someone buy me roses, and someone burned the church"
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: Blade280891]
#259876
04/08/09 03:16
04/08/09 03:16
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EvilSOB
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Like I said, matter -> energy is easy, thats why we humans have achieved it. But energy -> matter is so difficult it may remain a skill only gods can perform.
No, its not impossible to change the way energy exists. It happens all around you all the time.
Example 1 :: Take a cigarette lighter, only contains "potential" energy, stored as volatile chemicals. Light it. Light energy and heat energy are given off. Did we create it? No we just changed it from 'potential' to 'light' and 'heat'. Nothing created or destroyed.
Example 2 :: You find a rock sitting on the ground. (lets now call this zero energy) Pick the rock up and hold it at shoulder height. (your arm has now given it potential energy. Lets say 10 units) Let go of the rock. It hasnt started to fall yet. (the rock still has 10 units because of gravity, the gap to fall into) The rock starts falling, it gets to about halfway. (the rock now only has 5 units of potential energy, because it is half as far from the ground. BUT it now has 5 units of 'kinetic' energy, loosely termed momentum) The rock hits the ground, leaves a dent, and goes 'bang'. (No more potential energy, cause its on the ground. No more kinetic energy cause its stopped. Where did all that energy go? Rougly, 4 units in 'mechanical' energy to make the dent, 5 units get converted to sound - kinetic energy of air molecules, and 1 unit into heat) Nothing created or destroyed.
Example 3 :: Take a chunk of Uranium/plutonium whatever, and weigh it. Lets say 10kg of 'matter'. Wait 10,000 years, weigh it again. Now its only 9.999999999kg of 'matter'. The rest was lost as radiation, which is energy. Nothing created or destroyed.
Or maybe we have different understandings of "energy"?
"There is no fate but what WE make." - CEO Cyberdyne Systems Corp. A8.30.5 Commercial
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: EvilSOB]
#259939
04/08/09 09:38
04/08/09 09:38
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Blade280891
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Thats not what i meant, i mean (as you said) that you can't convert energy to matter, therefore cannot change the way it exists, i did not mean it in the sense you thought.
My Avatar Randomness V2"Someone get me to the doctor, and someone call the nurse And someone buy me roses, and someone burned the church"
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: Blade280891]
#259954
04/08/09 10:55
04/08/09 10:55
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Posts: 3,232 Australia
EvilSOB
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OK, so you are "just" talking about the engergy / matter barrier. Thats cool. So how doesnt my example 3 show an example of matter collapsing into energy?
Or are we focussing on the energy -> matter direction. Thats harder. There are no examples I know of that I can use, because man cant do it, and it, apparently, 'no longer' occurs in nature as the universe is too "spread out and cold". But it has been shown "mathematically" to be possible (even though thats far from proof) it just requires HUGE amounts of energy. Its an extention/reversal of the same maths they used to devise the H-Bomb. See how much energy was released from just a handful of atoms being converted into energy, we would need to capture/generate the same amount to manufacture a small amount of matter with! Way beyond mere humans.
"There is no fate but what WE make." - CEO Cyberdyne Systems Corp. A8.30.5 Commercial
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: Shadow969]
#260246
04/09/09 17:48
04/09/09 17:48
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AlbertoT
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how can you explain the "big bang"? what was before it? if energy and matter cannot appear and disappear then where did they come from?
The most popular cosmology theory , nowadays, is, the so called : multi universe #1) Our universe is just one " bubble " of a sea of bilions and bilions " bubbles " #2) The bubbles explode ( big bang ) because of casual events ( the tunneling effect ) #3) The " sea " which produce the " bubbles " is made of "false vacuum " #4) Where does the "sea " come from ? From nowhwere The sea exist because ....it must exist its existance being a direct consequence of quantum physics Useless to say that nobody can seriously claim that this theory is true, for obvious reasons but it is supported by many experimental evidences
Last edited by AlbertoT; 04/09/09 17:49.
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: AlbertoT]
#260284
04/09/09 23:19
04/09/09 23:19
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LarryLaffer
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Thats not what i meant, i mean (as you said) that you can't convert energy to matter, therefore cannot change the way it exists, i did not mean it in the sense you thought. Or are we focussing on the energy -> matter direction. Thats harder. There are no examples I know of that I can use, because man cant do it, Like EvilSOB says, it's hard, but Einstein proved it's possible. And the guys over at the LHC are just about to finally make it happen.
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Re: Why do you or don't you believe in God(s)?
[Re: Blade280891]
#260324
04/10/09 08:19
04/10/09 08:19
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Joined: Oct 2006
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AlbertoT
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i mean (as you said) that you can't convert energy to matter, Science give for granted that you can turn energy into matter If I am not wrong this result has already been achieved in lab Obviusly you can not think of matter as : stone , plastic steel...or even a small atom Matter , in the Einstein's equation, must be understood as anything having a " mass at rest " However if you can get a "massive" entity from a radiation, this is the first step toward the creation of the " real matter "
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