Gamestudio Links
Zorro Links
Newest Posts
Blobsculptor tools and objects download here
by NeoDumont. 03/28/24 03:01
Issue with Multi-Core WFO Training
by aliswee. 03/24/24 20:20
Why Zorro supports up to 72 cores?
by Edgar_Herrera. 03/23/24 21:41
Zorro Trader GPT
by TipmyPip. 03/06/24 09:27
VSCode instead of SED
by 3run. 03/01/24 19:06
AUM Magazine
Latest Screens
The Bible Game
A psychological thriller game
SHADOW (2014)
DEAD TASTE
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (Imhotep, opm), 785 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
sakolin, rajesh7827, juergen_wue, NITRO_FOREVER, jack0roses
19043 Registered Users
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 8 of 13 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 12 13
Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: AlbertoT] #263873
05/02/09 19:26
05/02/09 19:26
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
ventilator Offline
Senior Expert
ventilator  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,441
unity doesn't support any native file formats. it automatically opens the supported applications in a windowless mode and does a fbx export in the background.

the blender format isn't bloated. it exactly supports blender's features. it's a dump of all blender data structures.

Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: ventilator] #263880
05/02/09 20:49
05/02/09 20:49
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,488
ratchet Offline
Expert
ratchet  Offline
Expert

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,488
Well in fact i didn't want to say the native format of blender.

Well, each engine should have a dedicated plugin for some 3D formats and extract only the essential informations.
but yes the problem is that FBX format export from 3DSMAX is perhaps not the same as Blender export FBX Format or another.

For example : Ventilator have been able to create a export plugin for Blender to MDL A7.
If Unity would give him the Unity Format , prhaps he could write a plugin for Unity.
Well : The idea is that teams could pay externals people to xwrite specific plugins for some popular modelers to the engine smile

Caus for Unity for example you could have two plugins :
plugin 3DSMAX : 3DSMAX->FBX for Unity
plugin Blender: Blender-FBX for Unity



Last edited by ratchet; 05/02/09 20:54.
Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: AlbertoT] #263884
05/02/09 20:58
05/02/09 20:58
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
lostclimate Offline
Expert
lostclimate  Offline
Expert

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,771
Bay City, MI
Originally Posted By: AlbertoT
Quote:

With FBX you get that and cameras, lights, multiple UVs (if they are used) and more
... I suppose it could be a pain.


Agreed , it is what I have been repearing and repeating


Quote:

Gone are the days of simply using the extremely limited 3DS file format.


This is an interesting question

On one hand I have had a lot of issues with FBX on the other hand I suppose that FBX should have some advantage over the simple file formats, for the simple reason that all the modern engines are supporting it ( or Collada )

But what ?

Ok, 3ds is a very obsolete file , it does not support skeleton animation but if you look at the Unity recomendation for character animated file ( see my previous post) I dont see any reason for not using , for example , MilkShape

So the question is, what can I expect from FBX ( assuming it is bug free ) which I can not get from a simple game oriented file format ?


i havent read past this point, but ineeded to say something here. you keep "repearing and repeating" that this is the problem (extra info in the file) but what happens when you use the milkshape file and you need the extra uv set. ok, so now you decide, Ill just make a secondary copy, re_uv, write code to take one uv set from one file and its material, and all the rest of the info comes from the other file. Ok all fixed... wait, no now you need weighted vertices, which im not sure you can do in milkshape. so now you go out, get another package and still end up using fbx.

There is an inbetween for all of this. If you dont need extra UV's and you dont need weighted vertices, then use milkshape or something else. but just because you dont use them, doesnt mean fbx cant be used for "indie games" because i use it on a daily basis, it just needs you dont need it, and and that your not willing to put the time into finding a pipeline that works (admittedly difficult, and if its not needed, then there is no point in putting the work in.)

Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: lostclimate] #263885
05/02/09 21:15
05/02/09 21:15
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
A
AlbertoT Offline
Serious User
AlbertoT  Offline
Serious User
A

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
MilkShape support weighted vertices

Should it miss some essential features for game programming than it would be nice to have it but it makes no sense to get started from bloated file format being a potential source of bugs

Make it simple but not that simple

Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: AlbertoT] #263889
05/02/09 21:31
05/02/09 21:31
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline
Senior Expert
Dan Silverman  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Quote:
So, if I understood well. you can create your scene in your favourite application, without using the built in Game editor
However as far as the animation of characters is concerned there is no any advantage
Only the bugs
Am I right ?


No. Whatever advantages the file format would have would depend on the application importing the file. If an application used bones, then FBX would have them there for the application to use.

Quote:
If you visit Unity site you can see that also Blender gives problem , probably for the same reasons as FBX
It is a bloated file format


None of the native file formats (.max, .lxo, .ma, etc) are bloated, per se. They are just right for their own applications because they carry all the data that their application needs. However, that data may not be usable by another application and, as such, it is not needed. So, from the perspective of the application that is doing the importing, it could be considered bloated (i.e. carrying data it cannot use), but it would not be from the perspective of the native application itself (i.e. the .max file format in relation to 3DS MAX).


Professional 2D, 3D and Real-Time 3D Content Creation:
HyperGraph Studios
Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: Dan Silverman] #263890
05/02/09 21:35
05/02/09 21:35
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline
Senior Expert
Dan Silverman  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Quote:
So, if I understood well. you can create your scene in your favourite application, without using the built in Game editor
However as far as the animation of characters is concerned there is no any advantage


I previously used the example of creating and exporting a scene using FBX, but that is not the only thing you can do with it. In other words, FBX is not limited to exporting levels and environments. You can certainly create an fully animated character via FBX in order to import it into another application. Because FBX is not limited like 3DS or OBJ then you can do a lot with it. Perhaps the animated character model has more than one UV map, has a diffuse channel texture, a normal map texture, a bump map texture and a specular map texture. With FBX you could export out this model with all the animations as well as all the UV maps and all the separate textures.


Professional 2D, 3D and Real-Time 3D Content Creation:
HyperGraph Studios
Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: Dan Silverman] #263893
05/02/09 22:09
05/02/09 22:09
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,488
ratchet Offline
Expert
ratchet  Offline
Expert

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,488
A solution perhaps could be to create a general plugi,n import in a fisrt time ?
Import of :
-Model
-Animations
-UVMap and Diffuse
-2nd UVmap if used (for lightmapping for example)
Its the minimal thing we need.
If the plugin can do that we can do the rest of the job :In the engine editor add the normal map (specular or another) we need and and shaders to the model.

Well importing all maps (normal, specular,glow etc...)from FBX : don't work same way for 3DSMAX or Blender export.

Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: ratchet] #263896
05/02/09 22:24
05/02/09 22:24
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
A
AlbertoT Offline
Serious User
AlbertoT  Offline
Serious User
A

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
Well I am not definetly a graphic expert but honestly what rachet said it is what I thought
A game oriented file format should supply the essential data only, the rest is up to the engine

Last edited by AlbertoT; 05/02/09 22:26.
Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: AlbertoT] #263900
05/02/09 23:32
05/02/09 23:32
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
Dan Silverman Offline
Senior Expert
Dan Silverman  Offline
Senior Expert

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 11,321
Virginia, USA
However, many games have different requirements depending on what they support. So one game file format would not work.

What if I wanted/needed my model to have more than two UV maps? Perhaps I needed one for the diffuse channel, one for the normal map and one for the bump map? It is not likely, but it can happen. If the game file format does not support it, then I cannot do what I need.

FBX is a good, all-around file format that can be used for a variety of applications and a variety of reasons. What needs to happen is the developers that want to use FBX simply need to make sure it imports what they want correctly and then to instruct their users what to avoid, if anything, when exporting/importing via FBX.


Professional 2D, 3D and Real-Time 3D Content Creation:
HyperGraph Studios
Re: GameCore 2.0 release [Re: Dan Silverman] #263917
05/03/09 07:31
05/03/09 07:31
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
A
AlbertoT Offline
Serious User
AlbertoT  Offline
Serious User
A

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,245
Probably we are saying the same things

What I mean is that it make little sense for me to get started from a complicated file format and to extract just the information which are needed
It is more reasonable to keep the " the native engine format " updated with the progress of the hardware and the API's as well as to have application which export to the native engine format or even better to have a standard game oriented file format

Thanks to the progress of the hardware many features are moving from the package ( offline ) to the engine ( inline)

Page 8 of 13 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 12 13

Moderated by  aztec, Blink, HeelX 

Gamestudio download | chip programmers | Zorro platform | shop | Data Protection Policy

oP group Germany GmbH | Birkenstr. 25-27 | 63549 Ronneburg / Germany | info (at) opgroup.de

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1