i agree with that, but thats why i'm trying to keep the scale of my weapons large so as to exaggerate them, after all, its still a gun game, notic the sizle of the weapons on the characters back... its pretty big in size, anyone else, feel free to share your views on this thread, 3ps vs fps

I like the idea of a smooth moving 3ps camera, the idea of it using a trace to switch between left shoulder, right shoulder and any other opportunities sounds good, and I don't know how it would work, but if it could pan to where the action happens if the player isn't doing anything, that would just make my day... :P

Don
have a great day

All 3rd person "shooting" games I know (wich work and are actually fun) have an automatic AIM.
So that the gun is locked within a certain angle to the target.
The player just needs to point close enough to the enemy.

If you want a totally free shooting-behavior (the player
shoots exacly where the crosshair is pointing to)
then rather use a first person view.

Using a precise AIM in 3rd person is no fun.
Its the problem of the geometric offset between
the vector of the gun and the camera position. Its simly much less
natural than first person shooting.
Thats why the gun should lock to the target, if its
pointing to it within a certain angle.


In third person you also need to have decent animations
for the player to look good, as the player character is seen
all the time.

Apart from that, its very important to make a camera that
works smooth, especially in indoor areas.

---

On the other Hand, 3rd person has advanges, as you can work with lower resolution textures and lower detail objects,
when you keep the camera at a certain Hight.
In first person, the player can much easier loose the
illusion of a well crafted gameworld, as everything
is seen much closer.

--

But: making a first person view is much easier to do than correctly implementing
a 3rd person view.
In first person you basically just need to move the
camera, and shoot to the "middle".

In 3rd person you need a rather complex follow camera, better animations
and a good aiming precedure.

yes, its more difficult but if done correctly, i dont see why it should fail, thats y i made this thread, so i could explore reasons for doing it correctly... am not a fan of games "locking on" or games with in depth cover systems, it feels as if i'm playing the game how they want me to play it not how i want to...

Yeah, lock on system makes it to easy, cause actually, a third erson shooter should play the same way as an FPS, only that the cam is further away.

it doesnt play the same way exactly, there are minor differences but these differences can also make the game crappy... that difference is aiming and movement... aiming and movement in a 3ps can be quite a chore, you just wont have that solid fast pace feel if you dont explore options of getting the camera perfect... and aiming goes down the drain if youre making an overtheshoulder view and you want youre player to look at an enemy around a left corner...so to correct that, a cover system or camera switching mechanism is needed, both in which have their flaws...

cover system flaws:
-player as less control and the overall experience(to me) is reduced
-i always feel as if i'm doing what the designers WANT me to, ever realize how that piece of cover is just strategically placed infront of the door the enemies will be running from so you can cover an pop em one by one

camera swtiching flaws:
-EXTRA button config needed, sure you can meke it automatic, but your levels would then have to be designed for that so it doesnt DESTROY the players experience, imagine strafing left an right in a corridor and the game automatically switch the cam from your left shoulder to your right because it detects a wall... that could potentially break the game....
-animations have to be design to look good from viewing the character from both left and right shoulder views..

once again, feel free to argue these points ad that is the point of the thread and also feel free to ideas you would like to see in an 3ps...

Yeah, just make sure that whatever you decide to go for ultimately 'feels right' when playing. In some games a cover system in 3rd person worked horrible, felt completely influent, just totally not smooth enough to feel good when playing. In other games it worked relatively flawless, but felt a bit like cheating. Meaning, there's a bunch of things that need to be made according to what main perspective you decide to go for.

In fps games you usually don't really need a cover system so much, but leaning left and right might be a good idea to implement.

All in all if you spend lots of time to make beautiful main characters, you might as well make it a 3rd person game. In RPGs it works great too as you can see what items or weapons you carry around or what cloths you've bought/found. It has an added value to see things in 3rd person.

So I would first brain storm on what kind of game you're making, then go for what fits best. I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread, no time,
Cheers

So true, I forget thats the underlying principle behind 3rd person shooters

Even though I design models for 1st person I inevitably begin with 3rd person!

Oh well, got all these neat characters for emenies now

I agree inferno. Lock-ons and auto-cover makes the game far too easy, and done poorly, can almost make you feel like you're just watching a pre-rendered movie that changes a little when you push buttons. It can really make a player feel removed and distant from the action. I've seen a lot of games lately where you come up to certain points, for example, you must jump from one roof top to another. Instead of you actually running and jumping on your own, you walk to a spot and push a button. Another example would be there's a pre-determined fight sequence, and to win, you have to watch the screen, and push a button when it tells you to. That's really no fun to me. It's not very challenging, and never turns out differently. You either push the button, or you don't. There's no other options or possible outcomes.

It's not a shooter, but one of my favorite 3rd person games ever is Zelda, which is saying a lot for a person who really doesn't like fantasy or 3rd person games. I've been playing it since the original one came out when I was a kid! <3 But I think the style of it is relevant to the topic. It's one of those games that has intuitive controls, but is challenging, and makes the player think to overcome obstacles and challenges. It also turns out differently when you perform differently, and has a very dynamic system of event branching. There's always more that one way to solve a puzzle or problem, and the method you use can create an alternative outcome. I think emulating such a system of progression through your game could make it a real hit!

agreeing with most of jaegers points, isnt the reason why we play games so we can have control over the action rather than watching a movie? i'd like to think so... i DESPISE, HATE and am DISGUSTED by prescripted games... i'll call them out, flame me if you want just make sure you have solid facts to back it with...

call of duty: this game prescripts almost everything, from vehicles to enemy behaviors.. this as the advantage of giving a GREAT first time experience but gets repetitive real fast.. the thread isnt about that however...

what i'm saying is, i want to create a unique experience for the player, sure all game companies say that but just because their AAA doesnt mean they live up to it... it takes alot more than pretty visuals to capture a player...

in my opinion, people come for the graphics and stay for the gameplay, not the otherway around, i've been researching and am still researching and i constantly add and test new features... the only reason i changed from first person to third is because 1st is getting rather common and i want to try and get 3ps working at the feel of an fps... the major problem with that is AIMING, nothing else... plus the farther the cam is from the action. the less immersion there is...

agreeing with another one of jaegers points, interactive cutscenes??? mercenaries comes to mind, so you jack a tank... press a key to jump on, another key to open, blahblah blah until scene is complete... ofcourse, this is just how i look at gamedesign but i think the player would have a greater feel if: they jumped on the tank using the simple jump scripted to the player, they melee the door open then they do WHATEVER they choose to do to accomplish the task... please give opinions on this as am sure every person has different views and might think am talkin bull ... all i'm saying is, let the player feel like he's affecting the game, not watching it...