Ran Man, you must want to be converted by us, why else bother an assault like this on "atheism"? You want us to "admit it", but probably the most of us who give you valid counter arguments (that you are not listening to) are not atheists and you're fighting against a vacuum, it makes no sense what you're doing here.

Religion is a personal thing you yourself choose to believe in. I think religion is very powerful (and I don't mean politically), can offer personal peace, steadfast, hope and faith. It's not wrong to believe in God.

It's wrong to tell others they should.
I don't say that you do this, but you start to imply it.

And it's fine by me to believe in both God and evolution. You must allow yourself to accept this, though.

Yes, convert me if you can. lol but, i used to be one of you.
I'm only trying to understand how atheist (like my old self too) could run around and not believe in a designer, after knowing the complexity of the human body creation.

Please don't say atheist's are logical, because they are not. Anything that complicated MUST have a designer or creator. I happened to choose "Jesus", because I value the love concept, but others choose some other deity. Whatever you choose, it is logical, but to say there is no creator is illogical totally.


By believing the lesser complicated "robot" was created, but the more complicated "human body" was not created. It is faulty or false logic.


That's a good point. I've only been here 47 years, so who knows?
I do know for sure that I've seen demons or evil spirits years ago and they did not have a brain, but they were very intelligent personalities.

Now the scary thing is that to realize is that "YES" they are intelligent, but how will they ever die? OMG ! A spirit never decays, so they won't die! Will they die in 1000 years?! Heck no! a million years? Nope! There's no time limit, so in the supernatural there is no time. So, to ask who or when was God created, is not a valid question.

I used to be an atheist. But, I was an atheist looking and talking with spirits <of whom i did not believe in!> Now I ask you guys, WHAT WOULD YOU DO? My friends were all seeing the same things too, it's not just me.

Yes, but you left out "Krishna". This topic is for him too.


Yes, overwhelming evidence, like how the complex human fossils just appear abruptly on the fossil record "all of a sudden". The fossil record indicates creation more than evolution actually.


Yes, but it is illogical, because to make something that re-produces means that it is more complex. So, the most complex things in nature are not created, but the lesser complex things like a robot is definetly created. sheesh


Lucas, you are from Germany if i remember correct, there was a "Luke" as a conitec employee, so i should be careful. You might be JCL's right hand guy for all I know. lol I'd still like to finish my A7 "Angel" game project someday.

Oh okay, my apology. The old atheist "RAN" would have laughed at such things. I assumed you were like the old me. Thank God you are not.

But, hey nice talking with you guys. I should finish up this Iphone project, so i can get back to my A7 one. I'm just wondering if i can make money at this iphone / ipod stuff. ? It's worth a try.

First of all, I'm not an atheist, but I do believe you're dearly wrong on this. In fact, taking this path of argumentation will give you much more "enemies" than just the atheist. I guess only the guys over at scientology can appreciate this way of debate .


I think the robot is even far more complex than the human body! Because the human body is a result of natural flow, while the robot is synthetic. Creating a robot requires a high intelligence. Creating such a thing like plastic alone requires a complicated process (I don't see nature making a car, nor God Himself, with all respect). But the human body is not synthetic, it's a product of nature. A huge pile of elements that occur in nature everywhere as a result of geological and celestial processes. The only thing that currently lacks in a robot, and that the human body is superior in, is efficiency. A robot is not efficient, it has parts that are unused by the robot as a whole. Why a shell of plastic? What other use does that serve than being pretty? (though that has its use as well). But I hope you get my point. Where robots were created within a fifty years, the human body was structured from the most basic brick billions of years ago. A freakin' billion years, you could cycle to the next star in a bloody billion years. The immense heap of possibilities in a billion years is tremendous. No wonder that our body is most efficient, right? (though that doesn't mean it's perfect, we're just one of a tremendous amount of possibilities (oh, and here we go, perhaps there's no such thing as possibilities! But lets keep that for a different thread)).

In the upcomming years (decennia, centuries?) we'll find the true proof for life being able to exist in more places than just earth. Perhaps on some planet far far away, and perhaps some tiny microbes on saturn's moon Europe, or even Mars (since it has frozen water already).

If the creation of very basic lifeforms, living cells, appear to be possible by geothermal processes, do you still firmly hold on your believe that evolution doesn't exist?

And now a psychological question to show some insight in your thought process as a religious man:
If in the next decennia The Lord Himself comes down to earth, making some sarcastic jokes about us believing in evolution and then shows us the creation of earth, would you stand and laugh at "us atheists"?
I can assure you I'm not afraid to say the religion was true after all.
That's why I'm agnostic for. But I'm not making this huge point about it.

We'll see what time brings us.

And however you like to spend your life in religious circles, good luck on the iPhone stuff I'm sure there're ways to make money out of it!

Yes, well, i'm not really here in priority to make friends, but to tell the truth only, plus I'd like to see what makes em tick.

But, before anyone feels real sorry for these ignorant atheist folks, then see this link below and look at what they type about my older game.
And, they did it against me when I was very sick and trying to get well again. Those brave nuts.

An atheist site about my 2005 video game

And they attacked my youtube forum with foul material also.

They are as bad as the christians when reviewing my game works.
Because, they have a form of religion and "make up" their own truths, while ignoring other realities.

But some idiots ought to tell these dumb atheist punks that this particular older game title works on a pentium 3 ! So, them attacking my graphics and comparing it to modern titles is freaking ridiculous.

But, uggh, now that i got my health back, then i find it easier to take and accept their ugly venom.

because you use the sewrs more often when youre in pleasure ground :p

but in reality, its because there is stuff in our pee thats actally healthy and helps us prevent STDs and makes us heal faster.
BOING!

where does the body come from? 4 billion years of evolution for startes.
2 million years of human evolution alone. we are evolved apes, and those have more or less the same body adn are around much longer than we are.

also, im all for fictional characters if they are at least slightly grounded in reality...
want to show me your god? make him marvel... like thor, hercules and loki n stuff...

oh, did you know that there is no soul? you can mindwipe a person and he is gone. compleltey. like death. its awesome. heck, if i ever get alzheimers, id write myself some shady notes about some secret hidden somewhere and place them at certain places and when i forget it i have a great hunt


edit:
what i never understand is the logic of religios people. is it that much more logic and easier to believe that some all powerful deity created everything from scratch than to think that evolution took billions of years to create what we see today? dies it really make that much more sense?

Well, your gameart looks really amateurish.
Thats simply like it is. No matter of the games story/gameplay.
You have to expect such comments if you actualy want to
sell this game / be present on the market. Its not a free hobby game after all.
You even used template figures, wich where crappy looking
8 years ago already.
You cant simply excuse a bad graphical style with
"but it runs on that old computer etc. etc."
You could make much better looking games, using the
same resource-consuption.

Probably a lot less resource consumption even.
I get the impression that this thread was meant to be a talk-about-ran-issues rather than the human body. Fine by me to talk about ran issues, but no need to disguise that in a fancy subject about the human body.

You really can't consider all non-believers the same kind of atheists though, nor similar to you when you were an atheist. Atheism isn't a religion.

There are many people that do not believe because they feel it doesn't make sense, but who are far more agnostic about the whole concept of deities.



The complexity of the human body is severely overrated in context of evolution though. Yes, it's complex, but it literally had millions of years to evolve into what it's now.

I might have agreed with you that complexity can be proof of a designer if for some reason I would know that humans were only created yesterday with no ancestors existing. But it wouldn't be enough proof to conclude it must have been designed either, did you see some 'tools' lying around somewhere?

hi,


no, but everything else all around us that is complex is designed.
We do know that for sure.

Yes, well for some reason, the typical atheist overlooks that fact and assumes the vastly complex human body is not designed.

Why overlook the fact that everything else complicated has a designer?

Maybe all of us should all ask ourselves and further the atheist logic.

If all complexity needs no designer, then therefore maybe 3dgamestudio version A7 was not designed either? It was not designed by anybody.

In that case, we should all be demanding free downloads of the PRO version from conitec. After all, they did not design it and it was only a product of time. It should be free public domain work then... It was only a product of the environment.

Okay, i'm waiting for my free download now. lol Where's da link?

The working of gravitation is complex, and it's a natural event. It's something that inevitably happened, else there wouldn't be gravity like, everywhere. But why is it complex? Because we can't figure out how it works? Is a human being complex because we can't understand how we got here? If complexity is determined by the difficulty of understanding the mechanics behind the process, why does that mean there's a designer behind all the complex stuff?

Is a rock designed because an ant doesn't understand why a rock is hard?