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Shaders - Where to start? #280256
07/21/09 18:39
07/21/09 18:39
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
A
Alan Offline OP
Senior Member
Alan  Offline OP
Senior Member
A

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
Hi everyone,

since I bought the Commercial version of 3DGS7 a week ago I read about "shaders" which did not exist in the extra-version. I also found the "shader_test"-program which I like a lot. I would like to know whether you can recommend a shader-tutorial - not how to WRITE a shader, just how to apply them and how to work with them in general.

I also would like to know how to make use of the following:
NORMAL MAP
BUMP MAP
MIPMAPPING


What do these terms mean, how are they generated and used? Tutorial for these, anyone? ^^'

Greets and thanks,


Alan

Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Alan] #280259
07/21/09 19:09
07/21/09 19:09
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,922
Schweiz
Widi Offline
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Widi  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,922
Schweiz
There is a Tutorial in the wiki.

Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Alan] #280260
07/21/09 19:09
07/21/09 19:09
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 737
Ottawa, Canada
O
Ottawa Offline
User
Ottawa  Offline
User
O

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 737
Ottawa, Canada
Hi!

For a tutorial on Shaders go to the TUTORIAL section
on the main page of 3dGS. wink


Hope this helps!
Ottawa laugh

Ver 7.86.2 Pro and Lite-C
Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Ottawa] #280291
07/22/09 03:21
07/22/09 03:21
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 523
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Paul_L_Ming Offline
User
Paul_L_Ming  Offline
User

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 523
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Hiya.

No offense, but the Wiki is pretty much useless for artists with *NO* programming experience. The section called "How to Apply Shaders to Models" sounds promissing...until you click on it. Then it's back to useless again. The English description is about as useful as someone trying to explain how to drive a car:

"Take the key. Insert it into the ignition. Start car. Press clutch down and put the car into gear. Drive forward."

...what's a "key"? What is an "ignition" and where do I find it? What do you mean, "Start car"? Uh, what the heck is a "clutch" and where is it on the dashboard for me to press it down? What "gear"? Actually, what *is* a 'gear' anyway?

I (and other artists types) have been complaining about this for what seems like forever. Someone needs to explain how to use normal maps, bump maps, alpha maps, and specularity maps on models (both animated and static)...and this needs to be done WITHOUT REFERENCING ANY SO-CALLED TUTORIAL ABOUT SHADERS, *AND* WITHOUT MENTIONING *ANY CODE AT ALL*.

Want a good example of what A7 needs to be like? Go look at Torque3D or Unity as far as artists/art-pipeline is concerned. In T3D all I have to do is save my model and textures in a folder. That's it. When I'm in T3D designing my level, I just navigate to the model folder ad click n' drag. Select the model, and choose any appropriate textures I want (normal maps, diffuse, specularity, etc.). Done. Quick, simple, straight forward and easy. Until A7 has as friendly an art-pipeline as T3D or Unity, it's going to sit on my hard drive...again... *sigh*


^_^

"We've got a blind date with destiny...and it looks like she's ordered the lobster."

-- The Shoveler

A7 Commercial (on Windows 7, 64-bit)
Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Paul_L_Ming] #280364
07/22/09 11:51
07/22/09 11:51
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
A
Alan Offline OP
Senior Member
Alan  Offline OP
Senior Member
A

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
The tutorial on the main page and in the wiki is not what I'm looking for. I want BASIC information about how to use materials, normal maps and stuff like that with PREDEFINED shaders - at the moment I do not intend to write my own shader ^^'

Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Alan] #280367
07/22/09 11:59
07/22/09 11:59
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,510
Denmark
Claus_N Offline
Serious User
Claus_N  Offline
Serious User

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,510
Denmark
I don't know whether you have already seen this, but it took me 5 seconds to get it working after reading it smile

http://manual.conitec.net/WED_shaderguide.htm

This is worth reading as well:

http://manual.conitec.net/amaterial2.htm

Edit: Check this for info about making normal maps:
http://www.opserver.de/ubb7/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=239949#Post239949

Last edited by Claus_N; 07/22/09 12:02.
Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Claus_N] #280402
07/22/09 14:24
07/22/09 14:24
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
A
Alan Offline OP
Senior Member
Alan  Offline OP
Senior Member
A

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
Okay... this is AWESOME! That's quite what I've been looking for, thank you, Claus_N!

Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Alan] #280443
07/22/09 17:10
07/22/09 17:10
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
A
Alan Offline OP
Senior Member
Alan  Offline OP
Senior Member
A

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
Hi,

I followed the instructions in the shaderguide and built a level with a block in it which has a material with a bumb-mapping shader applied. As soon as I run the level I get a runtime error, telling me that the normalmap is missing. I checked this more than once: I saved the texture as "mywall.bmp" and the normalmap as "mywall_n.bmp", just as it said in the manual. Still the engine is unable to find the normalmap, so what did I do wrong...?

Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Alan] #280444
07/22/09 17:11
07/22/09 17:11
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,510
Denmark
Claus_N Offline
Serious User
Claus_N  Offline
Serious User

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,510
Denmark
did you put the two bmaps into the same WAD-file?

Re: Shaders - Where to start? [Re: Claus_N] #280445
07/22/09 17:16
07/22/09 17:16
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
A
Alan Offline OP
Senior Member
Alan  Offline OP
Senior Member
A

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 306
Austria
Yes I did. Tried to load them from a folder at first, then I included both the texture and the normal map into the same WAD and tried the process again using the new-created WAD. Didn't change anything.

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