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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: Mondivirtuali]
#290232
09/17/09 19:29
09/17/09 19:29
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,488
ratchet
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In fact you can import a low poly model and use traditionnal subdivision tools and traditionnal sculpting ones (like Zbrush). After that you can bake normal and paint on textures or 3D model. For Voxels, you must start from voxels, than do retopo or import a low poly for retopo. Well 3D Coat is so easy , and retopo so powerfull, it's very fast to do a hig model in Voxels , and retopology it. Baking normal map is pressing one button in the proper menu. After that you can paint freely on the 3D model or ot's textures.
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: ratchet]
#290234
09/17/09 19:36
09/17/09 19:36
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ratchet
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Well Zbrush allow to do incredible things, very detailled to high level very fast : Big tool indeed ! What misses a lot is a real retopology tool with features like in 3D Coat. Drawing point by point in Z brush is too slow. In 3D Coat , you can really draw the polygons or use shortcuts like Quads (you define two points to add a quad from an edge). Also a big missing feature is UV ; there is no real UV tool on Zbrush. I own Zbrush : it's an unbeatten sculpting tool , able to do hard edges now , and can be used for architecture modeling with the new projection tool. BUT : In fact 3DCoat is a lot more complete solution where you can : -Make the high deatilled model on Voxels -Retopology (best tools for retopo that exists) -Make UV (Just mark seems and press unwrap at the end) -Bake normal map (one button to push) -paint col,spec and normal on 3D Low poly model or in it's textures. It's a complete Toolset,very easy to use, very powerfull to produce from your idea to the final low poly model. It don't have Zbrush power or as such advanced details like micro details etc ... but you can already produce very detailled things wihtout workflow problem : and using just one software : 3D Coat Caus of Zbrush lacks a lot UVMapping and a better Retopology : i regret a little to have bought it (even if it is great) ! 3D Coat allow me to stay in the same software from high model sculping to final low poly model painting ! I can only encourage anyone going to 3D normal maps to really try it It's my personnal opinion and experimentation. That's tools i've used in real next gen character making workflow. Perhaps some people would like to reotopo with limited tools on Zbrush, export low model , make UV on a modeler, re import it on Zbrush to generate the normal map ??
Last edited by ratchet; 09/17/09 19:39.
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: lostclimate]
#290267
09/18/09 06:31
09/18/09 06:31
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
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If you want to go forth and back between ZBrush and other applications then there is an amazing tool called GoZ. You can work simultanously in both apps, so you have all the uv-mapping, polygon-modelling, re-topology of your choice. No export nor import, it is just like you are working in one app: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=071414Currently it works with Maya, Cinema4D and Modo (with many other applications soon to come). And since Modo is the best polygon modeler with great re-topology and best uv-tools at all, I am sure the best combination is Modo / ZBrush (you will see them both in the end of the video). Artists all over the world were excited like crazy as they saw this video (except Max users, because they still have to wait).
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#290282
09/18/09 08:22
09/18/09 08:22
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,488
ratchet
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@lostclimate: I'm not sure you will be able to import millions polygons in Blender , specially if you put some micro details : and retopo should be very slow if your Zbrush model is really high detailled ? (I'll give it a try to test how far it can goes, and how many polys Blender can handel and stay fluid to work) - Blender Baking is not the best perhaps for the normal map seems, i've got visible in parts other than symmetry (things i don't have in Coat 3D). @Frank_G: OK , it sounds great indeed ! If they put open source their SDK perhaps Blender Devs could make it also ? Once time again , it's for expensive tools : Modo, Maya, C4D. not free oness, or low budget Never tried Modo, but Coat3D have also very powerfull retopo , and great UV mapping tools. And with Coat 3D you really stay on one application for the entire process : High model sculpting to final low poly model. Zbrush guys coould make better retoplology or UV tools ??? Why they don't want ? For simple game making, i don't target realistic style and non very detailled 3D high models so 3D Coat gives me all tools i need and it's enough : I'm not creating realistic and AAA things ! (Just bought two sculpting apps: I won't buy anyhting 3D before a year or more !)
Last edited by ratchet; 09/18/09 08:42.
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: ratchet]
#290300
09/18/09 09:36
09/18/09 09:36
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
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Senior Expert
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Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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@lostclimate: I'm not sure you will be able to import millions polygons in Blender , specially if you put some micro details ... Zbrush guys coould make better retoplology or UV tools ??? Why they don't want ? Not millions, with HD sculpting it can have billions. No polygon modeller can handle this. The best way is to bake it in ZBrush. I have no idea of the features of ZB4. So I cannot tell you if they make more UV-options. But this never has been a deal breaker for the big studios. Most gamedev studios create a lowpoly mesh in a polygon modeler with uv-maps and transfer it to ZBrush for sculpting. And this works perfectly now with GoZ. But to be honest, I dont see your problem. You can make good uv-maps in Blender or in 3d-Coat. You dont need this feature badly. Why they do not support free tools? The reason is very simple: They deal like a commercial company. If most of their (paying and registered) customers are using Maya, then they start with Maya. If the SDK of Maya, Modo and C4D is easy to support then they will do this first and more applications will follow (they said, that there will be more apps later. But I expect that Max has more priority than Blender).
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#290302
09/18/09 10:13
09/18/09 10:13
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Joined: Apr 2008
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ratchet
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Most gamedev studios create a lowpoly mesh in a polygon modeler with uv-maps and transfer it to ZBrush for sculpting. And this works perfectly now with GoZ.
@Frank_G: I'm really not sure it's the more used way ! Look at UT3 models: they start from high model , and make low poly after : you have the bets results like that. You make the cage fro mthe high polygon.
Starting from low poly is good when you want to add surface details only.
Well i really prefer a lot ot be totally free in terms of creation : Create hight model from ground , in 3D Coat add freely any 3D parts models in Voxel Trre( sort of 3D layers) , add details to them as i want. Once High 3D model is done, ok : make retopo to have a very precise low poly model, to bake noral map. With retopo you avoid lot of normal map seems ?
OR perhaps i'm wrong, and i've not see enought workflow from other people ? But i'm not sure you can do as good results starting from low poly version ?
In fact if you look at forums on Polycount, game artisans or other forums, look at Next Gen characters thread work in progress (Dominance War 4 thread or any otehr challenge) : you'll see that people sculpt high poly version, than make low poly version at the end ! That's today workflow i think ! (perhaps i'm wrong ??)
Last edited by ratchet; 09/18/09 10:18.
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: ratchet]
#290304
09/18/09 10:36
09/18/09 10:36
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
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Yes. I know that many people work like you told. But then you have to export your retopology mesh at the end, create a good uv and bake textures after that. It will work fine with GoZ. It is not a problem to switch to another app for that. We will not lose much time that way. We lose much more time reading and writing posts in the forums
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: Machinery_Frank]
#290314
09/18/09 12:21
09/18/09 12:21
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Joined: Apr 2008
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ratchet
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@FRank_G : We will not lose much time that way.I hope. But it won't be a solution in my case, caus i can't buyy another very expensive 3D tool. And it won't solve retopology : Goz just allow - Auto transfert of low polygon form modeler to Zbrush - And inverse low poly and textures to the modeler It's not retopology solution. I should ask skilled artists doing real time characters on contests , what retopology tool or solution they use ??? We lose much more time reading and writing posts in the forums That's right
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Re: 3D Coat v3 :
[Re: ratchet]
#290317
09/18/09 12:25
09/18/09 12:25
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121 Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank
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Senior Expert
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Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
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But it really depends on when to use and when not use retopology: If you use the same base mesh for different variations of characters then a low poly base mesh (and no retopology) will save time and might be better to use the same rig and animation set.
Retopology makes only sense if you create something completely new from scratch. And the tool does not matter. You can make it in Modo, 3dcoat or ZBrush. The result matters.
And keep in mind: only klicking here and there will not make you an efficient topology. You still have to care about polygon loops, bridges and other low poly techniques to have an efficient mesh.
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