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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: zeusk]
#291180
09/23/09 17:57
09/23/09 17:57
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Joozey
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that was deep. i really want to respond, but i keep going to God and the concept of: Proverbs 3:5-6 (New International Version)
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.
My thoughts are, we are too consumed with what is and what may be, and honestly, all we have to realize, whatever the Lord has planned for us, is all that matters. If we seek Him and the kingdom, we will be fine. truth is, i sleep well at night, not thinking about the small stuff. Either G. the Lord straightens our paths to ultimate salvation, or religion all was a foggy concept for those who fear being on their own. I fear not, I care little about that. So I do not need religion to support me on that. Now I can't be sure if the path of God leads to eternal freedom, so why should I just choose this path anyway? This is sadly not the stuff that keeps me awake at night. Tiny useless social issues do that already.
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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: Joozey]
#291200
09/23/09 19:44
09/23/09 19:44
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AlbertoT
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I was wondering, are we able to change quantum states just by thinking? And using that, changing the future itself?
Nope As far as entanglement is concerned we are just " passive observers " Suppose you have two entangled electrons A and B A goes through an electrical field while B is far away You can control the movement of A via the intensity and the polarity of the elctrical field but this will not affect the movement of B now, A goes through a magnetic field and B is still far away A gets the spin " up " ( " down ") while B , at the same time, gets the spin "down" ("up") The point is that there is no way to control the spin of A via , for example, the intensity and / or the polarity of the magnetic field it is a mere random event For this reason entanglement can not be used as a sort of high sophisticated remote controller
Last edited by AlbertoT; 09/23/09 20:15.
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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: Joozey]
#291216
09/23/09 21:43
09/23/09 21:43
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AlbertoT
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Perhaps you're familiar with schrödingers cat? After typing this thread I recalled this experiment again.
Despite its popularity and even though it has been proposed by a great scientist , the scientific value of "the schrödingers cat " paradox, is null Many popular scientific books claim that : A quantum entity ( a photon of light, an electron, an atom etc ) can exist in several states but if you observe it than it "collapse" in one only state This is false The quantum entity collapse just in case you have the possibility to "observe" it regardless of the fact that you really do it In other words a quantum entity behave as a " wave " just in case it is fully " isolated " It is hard to think that the bilion and bilions atoms of a cat can be cosidered as "isolated" items
Last edited by AlbertoT; 09/23/09 21:44.
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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: AlbertoT]
#291232
09/24/09 01:20
09/24/09 01:20
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Joozey
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The point is that there is no way to control the spin of A via , for example, the intensity and / or the polarity of the magnetic field it is a mere random event
For this reason entanglement can not be used as a sort of high sophisticated remote controller Hmm I see. However, entangled parts have not just two phases, right? One can spin "up" and the other "down", and one can spin "down" while the other spins "up". But they can also remain blurry. If we just hypotetically assume for a second that by thinking, we send out tiny magnetic flows around, just like the earth does in quite bigger proportions. This magnetic flow hits natural entangled particles, and you cause an effect, triggering either scenario A or B. If you did not think, you did not send the magnetic flow, and the particles remain blurry, leaving you in scenario C. The quantum entity collapse just in case you have the possibility to "observe" it regardless of the fact that you really do it
In other words a quantum entity behave as a " wave " just in case it is fully " isolated " It is hard to think that the bilion and bilions atoms of a cat can be cosidered as "isolated" items That's an interesting fact (yeah I take your knowledge as facts :P). But what do you exactly mean by "behave as a wave"? A blurry state, or a wave that passes through isolation? In the latter case, if we are talking about a cat in a box well out of my range (like, I observe a box (with oxygen and all) on mars with a potential cat in it through a recorded tape with a delay of 10 minutes) then the quadrillion atoms of a cat can be considered isolated I guess? And in the former case, can we assume that our sun is in a wave state right now? By no means can we ever observe what it does right now. It might be burning as it always did, or it might have been exploded. But we do know that it is very unlikely for it to explode right now, as there is no aparent reason whatsoever. But I can safely say quantum entanglement do not need reason for changing in state A or B, correct? So how come the sun isn't likely to explode? If we all suddenly start thinking that the sun actually IS exploding, if all observers expect it to explode, will it more likely explode?
Last edited by Joozey; 09/24/09 01:22.
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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: Joozey]
#291359
09/24/09 17:47
09/24/09 17:47
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AlbertoT
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what do you exactly mean by "behave as a wave"? A blurry state, or a wave that passes through isolation?
For a complete and exhaustive description of a particle you just need to define 3 spatial coord , x,y,z, and 3 speeds Vx,Vy,Vz You may want to add also some angles but generally speaking a finite number of variables is enough For an electron ( or a photon or an atom or a small molecule ) it is not sufficient You must define a function in term of x,y,z and the time t Something like atom = f(x,y,z,t) Dont worry about the physical meaning of the above function( nobody actually knows it ) The key point is that the atom looks like something diffused in the space, regardless of physical meaning of the value assigned to the spatial coords In other words our atom is a sort of wave rather than a particle but do not assume that it is a real wave, it behaves like a wave That's different Ok, now let's consider a group of atoms , for example , our cat How would you describe the cat in the mathematical language Well the cat is made of atoms , so Cat = f1(x1,y1,z1,t) + f2(x2,y2,z2,t) .....fn(xn,yn,zn,t) with n = 1.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.........000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 False Our cat is described by one only function with 3n + 1 variables rather than by n functions with 4 variable Something like Cat = f(X1,X2,...............X3n,t) If you study this function you get the behaviour of our cat Well if you do it you will find out that a cat behaves like .......a cat In other words, all the amazing properties of quantum physics are valid only for a small number of isolated atomic entities If we all suddenly start thinking that the sun actually IS exploding, if all observers expect it to explode, will it more likely explode?
No, it will not explode As I said we are just passive observers as far as entanglement is concerned
Last edited by AlbertoT; 09/24/09 17:50.
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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: AlbertoT]
#291365
09/24/09 18:16
09/24/09 18:16
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MMike
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So then , why when they measure and observe it, it will behave like a particle, and when not observing like a wave, in the double slit video experiment..
So what does observing actually does? is the though, the concioness of expecting something, limited by our "limits" that will create the reality??
if quantum is not real in the real outside, why care about it? only if one can control or make it real , than thats worth it.
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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: MMike]
#291374
09/24/09 19:06
09/24/09 19:06
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EvilSOB
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OK, just to throw a spanner in the works here, but can anyone explain this, or point out a flaw in my logic...
All the atoms that make up my brain, or heart, or whatever, are INSIDE me, so all the quantum particles that they are made of should be un-observable and therefore un-collapsed "wave" state correct? And I live..... But if you stick me in a MRI or X-Ray machine, or even cut me open and look inside, the particles are being observed, so shouldnt they all collapse into "single state' particles? And seeing as the particles that make up my mind or heart have changed in a pretty fundamental way, why dont I just die on the spot?
There has to be some behavioural difference between "wave" and "single state" particles otherwise why would "they" feel the need to change when being watched? And how could we spot the difference.... (and NO Im not looking for a way to hit a radiographer with a malpractice suit)
"There is no fate but what WE make." - CEO Cyberdyne Systems Corp. A8.30.5 Commercial
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Re: Determine your future by thinking
[Re: MMike]
#291382
09/24/09 19:49
09/24/09 19:49
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AlbertoT
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So then , why when they measure and observe it, it will behave like a particle, and when not observing like a wave, in the double slit video experiment..
So what does observing actually does? is the though, the concioness of expecting something, limited by our "limits" that will create the reality??
if quantum is not real in the real outside, why care about it? only if one can control or make it real , than thats worth it. The " observing " by itself, actually does nothing It is a popular belief that : If you leave an electron alone than it is a wave but if you measure (observe) it, for example by placing some sensors near the slits, than the wave " collapses " into a particle Same as a sort of " condensation reaction " due to a mechanical interaction wave / measuring instrument If so, the duality wave / particle would not be that mistery, some fluids behave like that I would not even comment the " the concioness of expecting something..." a ridicoulus interpretation proposed by some phylospher The situation is different First of all, real systems do not behave either as a waves or as a particles It is alwayes an hybrid behaviour apart from that, in the double slit experiment the wave collapses whenever you can potentially get some information out of the system even though you are a passive observer If the system is completely " closed" than you have to deal with waves If the system is completely " open " than you have to deal with particles Some thing in between for semi open / close system Nobody can provide an intuitive explanation
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