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Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: darkinferno] #314897
03/11/10 20:52
03/11/10 20:52
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
J
JibbSmart Offline
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JibbSmart  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
Quote:
lol.. oh whoops. per-pixel lighting, my bad.. lol, making me feel noobish and i do use shadeC, boh_havocs WIP shader package is being applied to every surface in scion, he did a great job with this pack in terms of speed
No worries wink All I'm saying is that we already have per-pixel lighting. You're using it, I'd guess, since you're using shadeC.
Quote:
the fact of the matter is that most ppl here wont complete a game even if they get what they want, its just something i've seen, most games here dont progress pass a simple demo...
Far too true.

Jibb


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: JibbSmart] #314898
03/11/10 20:56
03/11/10 20:56
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ratchet Offline
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the fact of the matter is that most ppl here wont complete a game even if they get what they want, its just something i've seen, most games here dont progress pass a simple demo...

Yeah , but that's normal caus it's indie and lot of beginners people and some passionnated ones like me here , not industry people.
That's true that asking lot of AAA features won't make a game for you.

Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: darkinferno] #314904
03/11/10 22:10
03/11/10 22:10
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,210
İstanbul, Turkey
Quad Online
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Quad  Online
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İstanbul, Turkey
while agree with darkinferno's #314872,

it could be easier(take less work) to get pass with unity. Though this highly depends on the person, if you know the limits and the workarounds of a7 you could end up with a better product with a7.

For a7 engine, even if it is not feature-rich as unity3, it is not bad - just the editors are too old. Lite-c is the main better part for me when compared to Unity, but having an editor like the one on unity can be more charming after some point.

MED is quite a good tool for importing and tweaking, it needs a interface polishing and more format support.They can focus on importing rahter than editing for MED. (more formats etc.)

WED could be completely dumped and a new editor can be written.

SED is not bad but looks old, i remember editors like LED on some threads it could be included instead.

For the engine itself, a better renderer can be better.

I donot know why JCL is not doing this but using open source tools or parts of them. it could decrase the need for the manpower. Like UV unwrap tools of blender(see Road Kill ) for med, or a proven Renderer.


3333333333
Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: JibbSmart] #314915
03/11/10 23:35
03/11/10 23:35
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,816
at my pc (duh)
darkinferno Offline
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darkinferno  Offline
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at my pc (duh)
yes i knw but i wasnt talking about the engine PLUS addons, i mean, not everyone wants to apply a shader to every model they wanna light nicely, basically am not worried too much because from what i see so far, GS can be great under the right user.. i just wish the engine was marketed more and given a facelift, starting with this dumbsh*t of a website, heard them mention something about wanting videos for a video gallery then what? nothing... nothing at all... and umm, to everyone thinking of A8? lol, oh stop.. it aint happening any time soon..

Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: darkinferno] #314920
03/12/10 00:14
03/12/10 00:14
Joined: Mar 2006
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WA, Australia
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JibbSmart Offline
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WA, Australia
Originally Posted By: darkinferno
yes i knw but i wasnt talking about the engine PLUS addons, i mean, not everyone wants to apply a shader to every model they wanna light nicely, basically am not worried too much because from what i see so far, GS can be great under the right user.. i just wish the engine was marketed more and given a facelift, starting with this dumbsh*t of a website, heard them mention something about wanting videos for a video gallery then what? nothing... nothing at all... and umm, to everyone thinking of A8? lol, oh stop.. it aint happening any time soon..
I don't want A8 anytime soon -- that's just time to shell out money.

The shader features can't be called an addon. That's like calling Lite-C an addon. And they're no more difficult than Lite-C.

As far as I know ShadeC is 100% Lite-C and HLSL -- all natively supported by A7.

So many people are just too scared to try the shader workshop.

Windows 7 took off really well -- the only reason I see to change the engine version from A7 to A8 will be when DirectX 11 gets supported.

Jibb


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: JibbSmart] #314932
03/12/10 07:18
03/12/10 07:18
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Originally Posted By: JulzMighty
Windows 7 took off really well -- the only reason I see to change the engine version from A7 to A8 will be when DirectX 11 gets supported.

Jibb


DX 11 will bring you only advantages if you really use it's features, if you support real-time tesselation, global illumination, deferreed lighting or ambient occlusion. Otherwise you can do like id-software and just stick to DX9.

And then you also have to adapt the architecture of the renderer to really support shader-based rendering.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: Machinery_Frank] #314950
03/12/10 13:06
03/12/10 13:06
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,816
at my pc (duh)
darkinferno Offline
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at my pc (duh)
oh, and that island demo by unity is easily doable in 3dgs, recall someone being impressed by it lol and btw nothing from unity surpasses the wavefield demo by hummel, the only problem is, jcl/3dgs developers[whoever they are] dont feature projects made by users, the website for example, should clearly have a screens gallery and vid gallery with some of the more awesome projects i've seen...

guess imma have to start uploading random pictures to the net and tagging them :-" so they showup in any google image search for gamestudio lol

Last edited by darkinferno; 03/12/10 13:07.
Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: darkinferno] #314954
03/12/10 13:33
03/12/10 13:33
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 215
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vertex Offline
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vertex  Offline
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Posts: 215
My question concerns BSP/*.map based building.
BSP processes and related tools have been a tradition in game making for some time now. Unreal still features it. 3DGS has it. You can get blazing fast
interiors in 3DGS. How does unity stack up? I've noticed that most of the demos in Unity are exterior scenes.

Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: vertex] #314962
03/12/10 14:12
03/12/10 14:12
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,121
Potsdam, Brandenburg, Germany
Machinery_Frank Offline
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Vertex, Darkinferno:
This is exactly the problem of many indie engines: effective scene management.

The BSP system of A6 was quite nice but took very long to calculate for bigger levels. And it was not able to handle shaders, created too many render batches.
UDK and Source probably have a more modern approach to BSP. They also have to place portals manually. This will help to calculate the BSP tree faster.
A7 got an ABT system that is quite helpful for outdoor scenes.

C4 has a more modern approach. You place your zones and portals manually but then it does not have to calculate any complicated BSP data at all. And it works really fast for indoors with shaders and real-time shadows. You can see real-time lights and real-time shadows without issues through portals.
C4 also has some occlusion portals and occlusion blocks (to block everything behind a certain area).

Unity3 will get this industrial proven Umbra system, it is an occlusion culling system similar to what I already mentioned for C4. It has been used for many big games like Mass Effect as an example. It uses modern hardware, multi-threading and different low level optimizations.
Unity also has some streaming system and it will probably have any data tree like quad or oct tree. I don't know for sure, but the island demo shows, that it works fine even on different systems.

The comment of Darkinferno, that all this can be done in A7 might be right for small scenes. But I am afraid it does not stand if you are looking for bigger scenes. Many of us know from experience that there are problems when you have lots of entities in your scene, there were many stress tests to show this. And there are also problems when you add shaders to bigger worlds. And shaders on BSP blocks are very slow.
And if you want to compare with the upcoming Unity 3 then it will be really hard. The deferred rendering alone will allow you to use way more shaders in a scene and way more lights than you can do with a traditional forward rendering approach.

But I agree, there are some nice small scenes around, made by some skilled shader programmers. I admire this.


Models, Textures and Games from Dexsoft
Re: Unity 3 announced [Re: Machinery_Frank] #314967
03/12/10 14:37
03/12/10 14:37
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,538
WA, Australia
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JibbSmart Offline
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Manual portals would give me reason to use WED ^^ Most times it's unnecessary to wait for a long compile time to have culling between a few rooms (unless they each have a LOT in them), but to be able to set out the really important occlusion portals by hand would be fantastic.
Quote:
DX 11 will bring you only advantages if you really use it's features, if you support real-time tesselation, global illumination, deferreed lighting or ambient occlusion. Otherwise you can do like id-software and just stick to DX9.
I agree -- DX9 is/was a milestone in graphics that can still be taken advantage of for more advanced effects than we've already seen (with shader model 3.0, practically the only thing limiting us is the speed of the graphics card) -- my interest in DX 11 lies almost completely in DirectCompute -- I went to a CUDA seminar last year and loved what I saw and heard, and it was all very straight-forward, but an enticing part of DirectCompute is compatibility -- presumably, a card that supports DX 11 supports DirectCompute.

Jibb


Formerly known as JulzMighty.
I made KarBOOM!
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