it's OK .

It was not intended as offense against muslims.
While reading this thread i thought that a facepalm pic would fit best to express what i think of parts of this discussion.

@Vinous_Beret
I never wrote hate but it is easier to make up stuff than actually respond to the stuff I really said. I wrote we do not respect someones religious belevies we challenge it, we don't accept the idea of believing something without evidence ot at least we have a better tradition.

Thats why I said the word respect has lost all its meaning.
The reality is if you don't want to offend anyone on this planet it will turn out to be very difficult near impossible.

I will not talk about Gaza because it will not change anything all I know is that the Hamas has a very clear idea what should happen to Isreal and the jews, you can look it up in their manifesto.

The question really is not what offends xy but what should be allowed to say in a 21s century society. Noone seems to get that if drawing to prophet muhammed leads to violence not the pictures are the problem but the people you commit violence because of it.

And if people would stop playing the fantasy game if only we would give up that or do this maybe muslims would be happy is really a sign of a dying civilization and maybe thats what some people want. For most of us me included freedom was handed down on a silver plate and that is creating somekind of decadence where all things become relativistic, where words lose their meaning and where fear is the driving force towerds unfreedom. You can join that party of moral relativism or you can resist it thats up to you.

And now go back and wallow in self-pity and fantasize about a world of relativsim and the masochistic feeling of slavery, and then take a shower in moral absolutism.

Well, to say it in your own, extraordinary way: Grow up!

"not the pictures are the problem"
Absolutely. The drawers are the problem.

@fogman
thanx for proving my point.
@sebcrea this discussion leading no where,People been arguments
about this for centuries now.

No, I'd laugh it away and make fun of them. We're not mocking any moslim for very long, this will subside. It is a false comparison. But I know you'd like to make a good one. This is just a comparison very few people on your opponent side would take as correct.


-- following not aimed at Vinous_Beret specifically

Why would we stop arguing this? It's a good thing that this is being argued, rather than take immediate action or grow a silent hate. If one can't stand it better not take part in discussions at all. Everyone's voice is equal to the rest, and nobody is meant to make everyone change his opinion to theirs. The best way a discussion works is realising you contribute to the general public that agrees with your opinion, rather than make fantastic points full of truth that pursuade everyone. As we all try. But those points can not exist in these discussions, because both sides have valid reasons for their opinions. It is here a matter of weighting and meassuring, what is acceptable and what is too much? Discussions like these only can end with a local agreement where both parties lose on some points, but in the end can agree with eachother. Then the discussion has filled its purpose.

Now focus on understanding your opponents in this discussion, give arguments why you decided to disagree instead of giving odd comparisons (I've seen more in this thread :P), and respect the opinions of others here. Make priorities of where you truly stand for, and with what options you could live with and agree to give away. If you don't receive the same respect back, then leave the discussion as people are not worthy to discuss with.

Well, that's how I would like discussions to work . I'm pretty sure people here are to reason with the same way. I have changed my mind a bit on draw-a-muhammad day as I've understood both sides. I do think drawing muhammads should not be done out of respect.

But an event like this is also not the end of the world. I expect Muslims to show their voice against it and show disappointment in those who continue to participate in drawing Muhammads, but then they should leave it at that. The world is full of dickheads who can't be pursuaded, can't prevent that. The worst thing is to generalize those people with the general public, in both western and middle-east cultures . But I'm sure we all know that.

@Joozey
that's absolutely TRUE,again i am neutral here,i am not defending any side"regardless to my religion",i just wanted him to understand my point"which he seem's not".

Joozey made some very good points and actually he is right. Both sides have valid points and arguments.

The real problem are the stubborn people, who do not try to understand why the world works like this. These people go and kill people, bomb innocent pedestrians or they paint some pictures. Now ask yourself what is worse? Both groups are a bit too confident that they understood the real and only truth. But only some of them do real harm to other people.

Amen brother.

@Frank and thats why I think people should stop this kind of masochistic relativism, the reality is civilizations after sum time are getting weak exspecially in periods of freedom and that opens the playground for extrem ideas and today in the western world thats radical islam which even many westerners are attracted to.

There is a good documenatry from a muslim on the subject you can find a preview here The Third Jihad.